NSGL Nightmare

welshrarebit21

So the driver has been a resident of an apartment building for a few months now and have somehow managed to rack up a few PCNs with the lovely NSGL Parking, who manage the parking for the apartment block.

Residents are issued with two permits, one to park in 'any' visitors space, and another to park in a specific permit space corresponding to the flat.

FINE 1:
Received a few months ago. Yellow sticker on the windscreen. This was for 'parked in a restricted roadway'. Driver had seen countless cars park in this space before, considering there were no visitors spaces left (my housemate was parked in our allotted space).

The car is leased, but the lease company took it to issue a 'third party authorisation letter' thus releasing drivers details.

'Sir/Madam' has now received a 'final reminder' in which to action their demands or for them to 'take further action'.

FINE 2:

Now this is where it already gets a little bit hazy (all will be explained). One month ago driver received another lovely golden ticket on my windshield, for 'not displaying a valid permit'. This time the car was parked in the allotted parking space which is tied with the property. A valid permit (which driver possesses) was foolishly not displayed.

So why is it hazy? Well, because driver has received a golden ticket for this one, yet driver seems to have had letters through the post for fines, that golden tickets weren't received for... see below.

FINE 3 + 4:

Both dated within September and two days apart. These came via the lease company. NO golden tickets, what so ever. The dates differ from the dates listed in the NSGL letters which were attached with the lease letter (though could just be stupidity on the lease company's part). Also stating that should a second notification be received, they will pay the charges and add on an admin fee (though I'm hoping that won't happen as they've 'released me' to communicate directly with our lovely NSGL friends.


My response so far:

Well, I've so far, for all four (there may be more, god knows) done nothing. This was after a quick googling that NSGL rarely take litigious action. The website that referred to this though doesn't seem to operate, and due to the number of which have appeared I'm beginning to grow weary of this tactic, along with an overzealous lease company.

What advice I'm seeking + what action I was going to take:

What policy driver should adopt next and for which fines. Considering an appeal for FINE 1 stating that it wasn't clearly signposted where driver parked. In their defence and lord I hate saying this, having 'returned to the scene' where the driver parked there is a sign present there (though this may not have been present when the driver parked there, (signs of age within the sign would make this appear otherwise).

For fine 2, driver was considering asking for evidence to showcase that they had taken a photo of the car with the permit clearly not displayed and then to 'produce' the valid permit when required.

For 3+4 (let's hope there aren't more), driver was considering requesting evidence that the vehicle had been left with a PCN on the windshield before. I get that this is a rubbish line of defence however as if there were ANPR in operation that wouldn't have mattered. Also of note is that on the entrance to the underfloor parking where our allotted parking is, there is no signage of any kind to state parking 'terms'.

...And if we play devils advocate...While the apartment complex is gated and there is a Parking terms sign there, the majority of the time the gates are open, so how could the driver have reasonably entered through to the complex and have seen that parking terms were applicable to the interior parking spaces?


I apologise for the length of this post but I felt it was important to outlay the entire circumstances to which the driver finds themselves with this lovely company and take stock of what you thought the recommended next steps might be. Driver has successfully fought against TFL, a big supermarket chain and the council for parking / driving before but I have to say this one has me stumped!

Many thanks all

WRB

Coupon-mad

The car is leased, but the lease company took it to issue a 'third party authorisation letter' thus releasing drivers details.

'Sir/Madam' has now received a 'final reminder' in which to action their demands or for them to 'take further action'.

My response so far:

Well, I've so far, for all four (there may be more, god knows) done nothing. This was after a quick googling that NSGL rarely take litigious action.

Big mistake.

These went to a lease firm first and your silence just encourages the PPC to (unlawfully) revert to the lease firm, who might pay them all!

YOU MUST ACKNOWLEDGE ALL OF THE PCNS AND ASK FOR A SAR FOR THE EVIDENCE AND PHOTOS.

That way you see their hand AND the lease firm are out of the equation because you have given your NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS and said 'I am the hirer/lessee of this car and I want a SAR to understand the data you hold, including all photos...blah blah (see NEWBIES thread about a SAR).

Attach a copy of your lease agreement as proof that you are the hirer/lessee, but cover the bit that says how many drivers there might be if there is only one.

Did you read the Parking Prankster's blog about this firm when they faced criminal charges? Google it.

Why have you and your neighbours not got them kicked out yet and refused to accept this permit system, which is unreasonable and a derogation from grant, interfering with your tenancy or lease rights and enjoyment of your property?

The_Deep

These are not fines, they may even be committing a trespass or an offence under the Landlord and Tenants Acts for disturbing you "peaceful enjorment" of your property. Read this

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

what does toue lease/AST say about parking? Does it state the need to display a permit?

If not it takes "Primacy if Contract" over the self serving T&C of a parking parasite.

Read this

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

welshrarebit21

YOU MUST ACKNOWLEDGE ALL OF THE PCNS AND ASK FOR A SAR FOR THE EVIDENCE AND PHOTOS.

I have had a look on here and have an idea on what I'm doing with this now. I am just slightly confused however as to whether I should send this directly to their 'data officer' (as was listed to do so for other companies), or use this as a response to the 'appeal' section. Essentially I'm just wary about timeframes seeing as I have another week to 'appeal or pay' to the oldest one of these so called notices and if in my still failing 'appeal or respond'.

what does toue lease/AST say about parking? Does it state the need to display a permit?

The tenancy agreement (my AST between the letting agent and myself) states:
5. Cars and Parking
15.1. To park in the car parking space, garage or driveway allocated to the Property, if applicable.
15.2. To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
15.3. To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
15.4. Not to park any vehicle at the Property that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.

Nowhere does it state the need for a permit. I suppose this 'covers' fine 2-4 but not number 1.

The lease itself (stated online and not that I was ever shown this, I had to dig to find it) states:

Parking on the site not in a parking bay is [redacted for google] forbidden, including parking on the roadside....

...Parking enforcements.... [redacted to prevent google matching], and permits are required.'

From the information presented I would hazard a guess that this patron who win this case using help from the forums dwelled at the exact same complex as the driver:

forums.moneysavingexpert (.com goes here - new poster so cannot link) /showthread.php?t=5582809&page=2#topofpage

Coupon-mad

You can't appeal if you have passed that time, so the SAR goes to the DPO.

welshrarebit21

Thanks for all of the help so far!

The SAR went to the DPO email address.

I assume there's nothing I can do about the 'final notice' letter now as I have 'a week left' on it, before their 'further action'.

The letter is confusing and contradictory as it states 'If the.... not paid or appealed within 14 days... passed to our debt recovery service... additional charge..' but then later on it states 'Appeals must be submitted within 45 days from the date of the PCN being issued'. We're obviously working past the 45 days.

I'm just anxious that even though despite my 'responding' by contacting the DPO via email, I've left myself open to 'debt recovery' letters or them even going back to the lease company by my not responding directly to the appeal in their online portal.

Coupon-mad

I'm just anxious that even though despite my 'responding' by contacting the DPO via email, I've left myself open to 'debt recovery' letters

That doesn't matter, they are funneee! A load of tosh!

or them even going back to the lease company by my not responding directly to the appeal in their online portal.

OK now that is a good point, so send them something (preferably online - or posted if you have to) that is NOT just to the DPO, saying that you were the hirer/lessee of the vehicle (attach proof, maybe an email from the lease firm) and can you please appeal PCNs xxx xxxx xxxx and xxxxx. *

AND email the fleet manager of the hire firm and tell them that they cannot pay these of they get a second letter, and in fact they need to name you officially as the hirer, in order to PROPERLY transfer liability away from themselves under the POFA.


* You will not be able to 'appeal' BUT the point is to hook all 4 PCNs in your direction.

welshrarebit21

Received the SAR back now including all photographs and letters. What should I be looking for with these?

It is four 'fines' as received, two of which as evidenced, a golden ticket was never displayed.

I've been away for a few days with work so haven't yet had the chance to 'appeal' to them. But in doing so what line would I be using to appeal. Surely they would want an explanation and not just a statement that they are being appealed?

Or I suppose that doesn't matter as I won't be able to 'appeal' anyway?

Thanks again for all of the help!

Le_Kirk

From reading back through the thread it would appear that you haven't yet received a letter of claim (just debt collector rubbish) nor formal court papers - is that correct? If so, you keep the results of the SAR and use it in your defence (but more likely in your witness statement) when/if it gets that far.

welshrarebit21

No debt collector c**p, letter of claim, nor formal or court papers as of yet. Just the 'final notice' letters before they 'take it further' at this time.

My last chance to 'appeal' was yesterday for the oldest 'penalty', the others still have an amount of time remaining on them before they also 'take it further'.

I'm going to take Coupon-mad's advice and 'appeal' to them first os as to direct all of them my way and avoid them going back to the lease company. I'm just not really sure what else they can and will try to do!