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Periodic Renewal Clause
Renterturnbuyer
Posts: 2 Newbie
Hi Everyone,
I'm a new member and first time poster so thank you in advance for any thoughts you might offer on my situation. I have read the stickys and past posts regarding renewal fees but I could not find a similar scenario to my specific circumstances unfortunately.
I'm currently renting a house but planning on buying a property in the next 6 - 18 months. I am currently on my second 12 month fixed term in this house, with the first term starting 2nd Dec. 2017. I have no contact with my Landlord and everything is dealt with through the Letting Agent.
The Letting Agent has previously asked my intention come the end of this fixed term, to which I responded that I would like another 12 month term with a 6 month break clause (as per the first Tenancy Agreement). The Letting Agent responded that I can go on a rolling agreement with a 1 month notice period as tenant, with a two month notice period for the Landlord and if acceptable they will prepare tenancy extension documents. This was also accompanied with a Section 13 rent increase of £30p/m.
I replied that a periodic tenancy was acceptable but instructed them not to prepare any documentation as this happens automatically after the end of the fixed term, to prevent unnecessary work on their behalf. I have received a document today which essentially explains a periodic tenancy and how the terms of the existing Tenancy Agreement carry over except the notice periods, with a request for my signature. At the bottom of this document was a section urgently insisting on payment of £125 incl. VAT via debit card.
Usually I would have thought this was an unfair term as this requires no effort on behalf of the letting agent. However, my current tenancy agreement contains the following clause:
"The Tenant agrees to pay upon demand the full administration costs of £95 including VAT upon each extension of the Tenancy Agreement when it is extended, renewed or held over on a periodic basis after any fixed term. The Tenant agrees that these costs may be deducted from the deposit if not paid directly. "
My current fixed term was signed Dec. 2018, so before the Tenant Fees Act was active. I understand fixed term renewal costs can still be charged until 1st June 2020 for my current Tenancy Agreement. I know that my tenancy will automatically become periodic if I stay a day after my current fixed terms ends. Renewal fees for periodic tenancies are typically classed as unfair terms as they require no work from the Letting Agent to facilitate this, from what I have read on this forum and across the Internet.
However, is this still an unfair charge given there is an explicit clause in my Tenancy Agreement which captures going onto a periodic tenancy at a specific value? The Letting Agent has been particularly poor throughout my Tenancy and I'm not particularly keen to pay them money for doing no work.
My current options are:
1. Sign the document and pay the £95 as this is in my TA.
2. Reject the request for payment as it is an unfair term but summarise the tenancy will become periodic via Section 5 of the Housing Act.
3. Sign the document and instruct them to deduct the payment from my deposit i.a.w. the TA. (could I then challenge the claim via the DPS if I did this? Also, would this still be chargeable if I then ended my tenancy after 1st June 2020?)
4. Write to the Landlord to explain the Letting Agent is attempting to charge me for what I consider an unfair term and hope for their support to get the agent to drop the request.
I am happy in my current house and don't particularly want to move to another rental as I'm planning on buying in the near future. Plus all of the other letting agents in my area have similarly poor reviews online so I would anticipate similar problems with them.
Thanks for your time reading about my situation and I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice you may have.
I'm a new member and first time poster so thank you in advance for any thoughts you might offer on my situation. I have read the stickys and past posts regarding renewal fees but I could not find a similar scenario to my specific circumstances unfortunately.
I'm currently renting a house but planning on buying a property in the next 6 - 18 months. I am currently on my second 12 month fixed term in this house, with the first term starting 2nd Dec. 2017. I have no contact with my Landlord and everything is dealt with through the Letting Agent.
The Letting Agent has previously asked my intention come the end of this fixed term, to which I responded that I would like another 12 month term with a 6 month break clause (as per the first Tenancy Agreement). The Letting Agent responded that I can go on a rolling agreement with a 1 month notice period as tenant, with a two month notice period for the Landlord and if acceptable they will prepare tenancy extension documents. This was also accompanied with a Section 13 rent increase of £30p/m.
I replied that a periodic tenancy was acceptable but instructed them not to prepare any documentation as this happens automatically after the end of the fixed term, to prevent unnecessary work on their behalf. I have received a document today which essentially explains a periodic tenancy and how the terms of the existing Tenancy Agreement carry over except the notice periods, with a request for my signature. At the bottom of this document was a section urgently insisting on payment of £125 incl. VAT via debit card.
Usually I would have thought this was an unfair term as this requires no effort on behalf of the letting agent. However, my current tenancy agreement contains the following clause:
"The Tenant agrees to pay upon demand the full administration costs of £95 including VAT upon each extension of the Tenancy Agreement when it is extended, renewed or held over on a periodic basis after any fixed term. The Tenant agrees that these costs may be deducted from the deposit if not paid directly. "
My current fixed term was signed Dec. 2018, so before the Tenant Fees Act was active. I understand fixed term renewal costs can still be charged until 1st June 2020 for my current Tenancy Agreement. I know that my tenancy will automatically become periodic if I stay a day after my current fixed terms ends. Renewal fees for periodic tenancies are typically classed as unfair terms as they require no work from the Letting Agent to facilitate this, from what I have read on this forum and across the Internet.
However, is this still an unfair charge given there is an explicit clause in my Tenancy Agreement which captures going onto a periodic tenancy at a specific value? The Letting Agent has been particularly poor throughout my Tenancy and I'm not particularly keen to pay them money for doing no work.
My current options are:
1. Sign the document and pay the £95 as this is in my TA.
2. Reject the request for payment as it is an unfair term but summarise the tenancy will become periodic via Section 5 of the Housing Act.
3. Sign the document and instruct them to deduct the payment from my deposit i.a.w. the TA. (could I then challenge the claim via the DPS if I did this? Also, would this still be chargeable if I then ended my tenancy after 1st June 2020?)
4. Write to the Landlord to explain the Letting Agent is attempting to charge me for what I consider an unfair term and hope for their support to get the agent to drop the request.
I am happy in my current house and don't particularly want to move to another rental as I'm planning on buying in the near future. Plus all of the other letting agents in my area have similarly poor reviews online so I would anticipate similar problems with them.
Thanks for your time reading about my situation and I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice you may have.
0
Comments
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You signed the tenancy agreement and agreed to the fees... You may find ur letting agent takes the money from what u think is rent... Your landlord will then be short and will ask for the missing rent.. If u do not pay the landlord may decide to start eviction proceedings..
I understand u thinking its a lot for not a lot and I agree which is why they are now banned.. However because u signed the tennancy before the ban its still allowed..
Learn a lesson and read ur contract next time. But u have agreed to pay that amount.. Now is not the time to argue it, before u signed was...0 -
I do not recomend any of these options though they are all open to you.Renterturnbuyer wrote: »
My current options are:
1. Sign the document and pay the £95 as this is in my TA. This is an option.
2. Reject the request for payment as it is an unfair term but summarise the tenancy will become periodic via Section 5 of the Housing Act. This is an option.
3. Sign the document and instruct them to deduct the payment from my deposit i.a.w. the TA. (could I then challenge the claim via the DPS if I did this? Also, would this still be chargeable if I then ended my tenancy after 1st June 2020?) This is an option. No.
4. Write to the Landlord to explain the Letting Agent is attempting to charge me for what I consider an unfair term and hope for their support to get the agent to drop the request. This is an option.
I would do nothing. Do not respond. Do not sign or return any documents they send you. If they contact or pressurise you, stall them ("thinking about it"; "dog ate it" etc) but donot engage in discussions. Do not try to argue the legal position with them.
On 2nd December you will move to a Periodic Tenancy. If/when you end the tenancy (after the appropriate notice), if they attempt to deduct the £125, raise a dispute. I very much doubt the arbitrators will find in the landlord's favour.
ps- from 2nd December, continue to pay the original rent. A S13 Notice cannot be used during a fixed term tenancy.You currently have a fixed term tenancy. It is invalid (unless re-served after 2nd December).
Correction: From Shelter website:
https://england.shelter.org.uk/legal/rents/market_rents/rent_increases/section_13_rent_increasesa notice of increase can be served during the fixed term of an assured or assured shorthold tenancy, but the rent increase must take effect after the:[2]tenancy has become statutory periodic,0 -
What G_M said: Spot on.0
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I think thats bad advise... The tenancy agreement says even if the tenancy moves to a periodic that the tenant agrees to pay the amount upon demand... That amount has been demanded, so if you do nothing and the tenancy moves to periodic the fee is still due...
You could argue unfair terms but it was common practice so I doubt you would win.0 -
I think thats bad advise... The tenancy agreement says even if the tenancy moves to a periodic that the tenant agrees to pay the amount upon demand... That amount has been demanded, so if you do nothing and the tenancy moves to periodic the fee is still due...
You could argue unfair terms but it was common practice so I doubt you would win.
The contract could have also stated that the tenant must hand over their first new born. It doesn't mean it is both acceptable and enforceable.0 -
You signed the tenancy agreement and agreed to the fees... You may find ur letting agent takes the money from what u think is rent... Your landlord will then be short and will ask for the missing rent.. If u do not pay the landlord may decide to start eviction proceedings.. - They may. But that would fail under s.8. and in anycase showing payment to the landlord would shift attention to the agent
I understand u thinking its a lot for not a lot and I agree which is why they are now banned.. However because u signed the tennancy before the ban its still allowed.. - Partially correct.
Learn a lesson and read ur contract next time. But u have agreed to pay that amount.. Now is not the time to argue it, before u signed was...
I disagree, now is the perfect time to argue itI think thats bad advise... The tenancy agreement says even if the tenancy moves to a periodic that the tenant agrees to pay the amount upon demand... - The tenancy agreement is between landlord and tenant. So I'd be interested to know on what basis the agent would make that claim. That amount has been demanded, so if you do nothing and the tenancy moves to periodic the fee is still due...
You could argue unfair terms but it was common practice so I doubt you would win.
Your opinion is based upon experience or just a hunch?0 -
Based on experienceand the law... The law allows still fees if the tenancy started before the ban.. £125 is not an unreasonable fee and was common place.. Clearly the contract states this fee is due...
As for the comment about first born child, what a load of rubbish. By using that logic any contract is worthless as the person paying can just decide they cant be bothered.. Why doesnt the tenant decide that the rent is an unfair term and stop paying his rent...0 -
The worst that could happen would be the deposit scheme arbitrators would find in favour of the landlord and the tenant would pay the fee at that point.I think thats bad advise... The tenancy agreement says even if the tenancy moves to a periodic that the tenant agrees to pay the amount upon demand... That amount has been demanded, so if you do nothing and the tenancy moves to periodic the fee is still due...
You could argue unfair terms but it was common practice so I doubt you would win.
Whilst possible I still maintain that is unlikely.
As for the LL evicting if the fee is not paid
a) it would not make financial sense for the LL to do so and
b) a court would be unlikely to award possession under S8 G12 for such an amount, which in any event the tenant could decide to pay if court proceedings began.0 -
Based on experienceand the law... The law allows still fees if the tenancy started before the ban.. £125 is not an unreasonable fee and was common place.. Clearly the contract states this fee is due...
As for the comment about first born child, what a load of rubbish. By using that logic any contract is worthless as the person paying can just decide they cant be bothered.. Why doesnt the tenant decide that the rent is an unfair term and stop paying his rent...
No it isn't based upon experience with the law. Sorry but charging for something that happens by law isn't going to be seen as an appropriate fee.0 -
Based on experienceand the law... The law allows still fees if the tenancy started before the ban.. £125 is not an unreasonable fee and was common place.. Clearly the contract states this fee is due...
As for the comment about first born child, what a load of rubbish. By using that logic any contract is worthless as the person paying can just decide they cant be bothered.. Why doesnt the tenant decide that the rent is an unfair term and stop paying his rent...
The point is just because something is in a contract does not guarantee it will be legally enforceable.0
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