Advice needed on freehold!

Mollin

Hi

Hoping some more enlightened people can help me get my head around my freehold / lease situation!

I purchased a property in 2015 which included the freehold for my flat and the flat below me. A company was incorporated to own this freehold and I am the only shareholder.

I have a reasonably good relationship with downstairs - an elderly lady. Lately she has been doing some work on the flat downstairs - decoration etc which is making me think she maybe considering selling and moving in with her son (could be wrong!). My understanding is there is only 77years left on her lease which would need extending. This would be great as I could do with the money!

So I've been looking for my freehold documentation and unfortunately can't find it! So I've looked on the land registry which seems to confirm there is only 77 years left but also has the name of the person I bought my flat off and not my name! This concerns me!

I also need to get some work done on the outside of the flat (pointing mainly). The lease sets out I should organise the work but both of us would split the cost. I've broached this a few times with my neighbour and she is not keen (it would probably cost a few thousand each) and has suggested claiming on the insurance (!) and that I'm liable to pay as the freeholder (this isn't what's in the lease). I'm worried that if she moves I will be left in a tight spot regarding this work.

Sorry for my long rambly post and my general ignorance! But essentially I'd like to know:

- How do I get a copy of the freehold documents if I can't find them?
- Should I be worried the land registry doesn't list me as the freeholder?
- How do I confirm the lease with downstairs is 77yrs
- How do I go about getting an approx price for any extension (are the online calculators accurate)
- Could she sell it to a cash buyer and therefore the short lease wouldn't be an issue and I wouldn't benefit financially from an extension?
- Should I just go to a solicitor and get advice on all of this?

Massive thanks if you got to the end and are able to give me any pointers...

Cheers!:beer:

G_M

Mollin wrote: »

.........So I've looked on the land registry which seems to confirm there is only 77 years left but also has the name of the person I bought my flat off and not my name! This concerns me!

Are you looking at the Freehold Title and/or your lease Title, and/or the downstairs lease?

I also need to get some work done on the outside of the flat (pointing mainly). The lease sets out I should organise the work but both of us would split the cost. I've broached this a few times with my neighbour and she is not keen (it would probably cost a few thousand each) and has suggested claiming on the insurance (!)

This is a routine repair - not an insured risk.



and that I'm liable to pay as the freeholder (this isn't what's in the lease).

If her lease says she must contribute 50%, then that is what she must pay.

I'm worried that if she moves I will be left in a tight spot regarding this work. Why? If she sells, the new owner will be liable for the cost.

Sorry for my long rambly post and my general ignorance! But essentially I'd like to know:

- How do I get a copy of the freehold documents if I can't find them? What freehold documents? The Freehold Title showing your ownership of the Freehold is held electronically at the Land Registry - I assume that's what you've already looked at.
- Should I be worried the land registry doesn't list me as the freeholder? Yes. When you purchased the freehold, you should have been registered as the owner. Did you use a solicitor? He should have lodged the transfer document with the LR for updating.

Contact your solicior.
- How do I confirm the lease with downstairs is 77yrs Look at the lease. What date was it created? How long was it originally? Calculate how long is left.
- How do I go about getting an approx price for any extension (are the online calculators accurate)

https://www.lease-advice.org/
- Could she sell it to a cash buyer and therefore the short lease wouldn't be an issue and I wouldn't benefit financially from an extension? Yes, but the new owner would have a 77 year lease.

If you live another 77 years, you'll get the flat.
Or if/when the new owner wishes to sell, they too will either need a cash buyer, or to extend the lease.
- Should I just go to a solicitor and get advice on all of this? Certainly about the freehold. If you don't own it, you can't extend the lease!


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Mollin

Thank you! I'd only looked at the leasehold documents on the land registry. I've now downloaded the freehold so I can see I am the freeholder (not my company?) but for some reason on the neighbour's lease it still says the person I bought the house off. I will get onto my solicitor re the registration at the time of the purchase. Thanks for your help.

eddddy

Mollin wrote: »

I also need to get some work done on the outside of the flat (pointing mainly). The lease sets out I should organise the work but both of us would split the cost. I've broached this a few times with my neighbour and she is not keen (it would probably cost a few thousand each) and has suggested claiming on the insurance (!) and that I'm liable to pay as the freeholder (this isn't what's in the lease). I'm worried that if she moves I will be left in a tight spot regarding this work.

If your neighbour wont pay voluntarily, and their contribution is going to be over £250, you need to do a section 20 consultation for major works.

If you don't do a correct section 20 consultation, the most you can demand from the neighbour is £250.

See: https://www.lease-advice.org/advice-guide/section-20-consultation-private-landlords-resident-management-companies-agents/

It's a bit of a hassle, but it's part of the duty of being a freeholder. (The legislation is to protect leaseholders from freeholders who try to charge unreasonable service charges.)

If the current leaseholder sells before you complete the section 20 consultation, it will be the new leaseholder who becomes liable for the charge.

Tom99

Mollin wrote: »

Thank you! I'd only looked at the leasehold documents on the land registry. I've now downloaded the freehold so I can see I am the freeholder (not my company?) but for some reason on the neighbour's lease it still says the person I bought the house off. I will get onto my solicitor re the registration at the time of the purchase. Thanks for your help.

The original freeholder/leaseholder names stay, they do not change when the freehold or leasehold is sold. If your neighbour is the original leaseholder her name will stay on the lease even after she sells (assigns) the lease to a new owner.
If you are sure the freehold is registered in your name there is no need to contact your solicitor.
The online calculators for a lease extension price are reasonable accurate but when the time comes you can charge both your surveyors and solicitors costs to your tenant so there is no need to try and do it on the cheap.

da_rule

Was the limited company set up as a management company rather than to own the freehold?

As has been said, as the works will exceed £250 per leaseholder you’ll need to conduct proper consultation under s.20 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. Even if she ‘voluntarily’ agrees, carrying out consultation enables you to rely on the statutory provisions and lease provisions if she doesn’t pay.

danlightbulb

This thread = why never to buy leasehold.

Complete extortion.

eddddy

danlightbulb wrote: »

This thread = why never to buy leasehold.

Complete extortion.

Why?

I read this thread as being about 2 flats in a building.

The wall of the building needs repairs, so each flat owner pays 50% of the bill. Why is that extortion?

If you own a freehold house and the wall of the building needs repairs, the house owner pays 100% of the bill.



(This thread highlights the issues that can arise when 2 strangers 'share' a building.

I suspect you'd get similar issues if 2 strangers 'shared' a car. Each person might be unhappy about how the cost of petrol, servicing, repairs is split. And arguments about whether repairs are necessary, whose fault the repairs are, etc.)

divadee

danlightbulb wrote: »

This thread = why never to buy leasehold.

Complete extortion.

How do you expect repairs and such like to be done in a block of flats then? Yes you could have a factor type situation like in scotland but it still needs to be paid by the flat owners. If every flat owner owned there flat freehold without anything put in place with regards to maintenance it would cause a lot more arguments, court cases and money lost!

It's not a perfect system, it is a hassle to be a freeholder, and yes there are some sharks out there as freeholders, but it is the system.

This is only with regards to flats. Leasehold houses are purely a scam in the majority of situations.

G_M

Mollin wrote: »

......) but for some reason on the neighbour's lease it still says the person I bought the house off. I will get onto my solicitor re the registration at the time of the purchase. Thanks for your help.

Why contact your solicitor? You have now confirmed that you are registered as the freeholder so what is the problem with registration?

Are you looking at your neighbour's original lease? Or the registered leasehold Title at the Land Registry?
The registered leasehold Title at the Land Registry will show the name of the current owner of the lease.
The original lease will show the name of the original leaseholder (this will never change).

As edddy explained, you need to carry out a proper section 20 consultation before undertaking the repairs.

danlightbulb

eddddy wrote: »

The wall of the building needs repairs, so each flat owner pays 50% of the bill. Why is that extortion?

If you own a freehold house and the wall of the building needs repairs, the house owner pays 100% of the bill.

Because the lady who owns the lease doesnt own the fabric of the building. Her lease will expire in X years, does contributing to the building repairs give a lease extension, no. So what benefit is this person getting from the deal? Essentially, her home value is being eroded to nothing over the lease period. Whilst the freeholder will still have a saleable and likely increasing in value asset.

Its a fundamentally unfair situation. Forced to pay to maintain something you dont own and can never realise the value of.