Descriptor F (8 points): Cannot prepare and cook food

Descriptor F (8 points): Cannot prepare and cook food

I am unsteady on my feet - so, whilst I can put a pie in the oven - I would struggle to do anything with it after cooking - I could not carry it to a plate or move the plate afterwards to eat it.

How would that rate me for points ?
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  • edited 1 November 2019 at 5:04PM
    Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    edited 1 November 2019 at 5:04PM
    I'm not sure if it's included in the test, but if it is you could probably be reasonably expected to use an aid such as a perching stool or one of those trolleys (trays on wheels). If not, assistance would be reasonable if you can do the rest of the task (with or without aids).

    See if the case law sheds any light: https://pipinfo.net/activities/preparing-food

    It was actually mentioned in a bit of case law I was reading about notional tests for journeys to and from work ... I don't have time to reread it right now but I'll see if I can find the link ...

    It may have been here https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/ht-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-esa-2018-ukut-174-aac
    Or maybe here https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/sg-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-esa-2018-ukut-34-aac
    In the document (link begins with CE/ ), search for 'notional' - it was talking about considering things in context, not divorced from reality.
  • edited 1 November 2019 at 7:11PM
    poppy12345poppy12345 Forumite
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    edited 1 November 2019 at 7:11PM
    50Twuncle wrote: »
    Descriptor F (8 points): Cannot prepare and cook food

    I am unsteady on my feet - so, whilst I can put a pie in the oven - I would struggle to do anything with it after cooking - I could not carry it to a plate or move the plate afterwards to eat it.

    How would that rate me for points ?
    Using an oven isn't considered for this activity.


    This activity considers a claimant’s ability to prepare and cook a simple meal for one from fresh ingredients. It assesses ability to open packaging, peel and chop, serve food on to a plate and use a microwave oven or cooker hob to cook or heat food. Serving food means transferring food to a plate or bowl, it does not include presentation.

    Carrying items around the kitchen or carrying food to where it will be eaten is not included in this activity.


    • can the claimant carry out the activity reliably (that is, safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period) and independently, or with the use of a commonly used device? If so, then descriptor A would usually apply
    • does the claimant need to use/rely upon an aid or appliance to complete the activity? If they use an aid or appliance which it would be reasonable to expect them to use e.g. a Zimmer frame when walking, could they then complete the activity reliably without assistance from another person? If so, then descriptor B would apply
    • if the answer to both the above questions is no, then consideration should be given to whether the claimant must rely on prompting, supervision or assistance in order to complete the activity, in which case an alternative descriptor may be more appropriate
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria
  • To my way of thinking to score 8 points for this you would have to be unable to prepare and cook food completely.
  • 50Twuncle50Twuncle Forumite
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    venison wrote: »
    To my way of thinking to score 8 points for this you would have to be unable to prepare and cook food completely.
    Surely if someone is unable to stand up for more than a couple of minutes - how can they "cook" ?
  • 50Twuncle wrote: »
    Surely if someone is unable to stand up for more than a couple of minutes - how can they "cook" ?

    Poppy's answer explains it.

    If you can microwave a ready meal, you can 'prepare a meal'...you don't need to be able to cook from scratch.

    Personally I do a fair amount of food prep sitting down...I also get points because I cannot safely use a knife.

    You might like to look at various cooking 'aids'...I rely on mine for helping me make the most of my limited abilities.
  • 50Twuncle50Twuncle Forumite
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    How fixed are tribunal results ?
    ie) If someone is given a particular finding, say 4 years ago - will I be able to use that myself and get the same result - or do they look at each case individually every time ?
  • 50Twuncle50Twuncle Forumite
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    I'm not sure if it's included in the test, but if it is you could probably be reasonably expected to use an aid such as a perching stool or one of those trolleys (trays on wheels). If not, assistance would be reasonable if you can do the rest of the task (with or without aids).

    See if the case law sheds any light: https://pipinfo.net/activities/preparing-food

    It was actually mentioned in a bit of case law I was reading about notional tests for journeys to and from work ... I don't have time to reread it right now but I'll see if I can find the link ...

    It may have been here https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/ht-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-esa-2018-ukut-174-aac
    Or maybe here https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/sg-v-secretary-of-state-for-work-and-pensions-esa-2018-ukut-34-aac
    In the document (link begins with CE/ ), search for 'notional' - it was talking about considering things in context, not divorced from reality.


    That document (CE_1585_2017-01..PDF) is for ESA !!
    But the pipinfo one is extremely helpful - thanks
  • edited 2 November 2019 at 4:03PM
    Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    edited 2 November 2019 at 4:03PM
    50Twuncle wrote: »
    How fixed are tribunal results ?
    ie) If someone is given a particular finding, say 4 years ago - will I be able to use that myself and get the same result - or do they look at each case individually every time ?

    They look at each case individually, but if it is relevant to your current circumstances you can use it to lend weight to your reasoning.
    50Twuncle wrote: »
    That document (CE_1585_2017-01..PDF) is for ESA !!
    But the pipinfo one is extremely helpful - thanks

    I know. As explained, I linked them because it mentioned the cooking notional test. Evidently it didn't give you the answer, my apologies (I've still not been able to reread it yet).

    Edit: though it's now irrelevant anyway as the correct and simple answer has already been given above :)
  • venison wrote: »
    To my way of thinking to score 8 points for this you would have to be unable to prepare and cook food completely.


    This^^^


    My son cannot cook at all. He has a severe learning disability and also physical disabilities. He cannot open some packaging or use a tin opener, follow a recipe, use a timer (or tell the time), identify whether food is properly cooked, lift a pan or a kettle, chop veg safely, etc.



    He didn't score the full eight points for this descriptor.
  • Spoonie_TurtleSpoonie_Turtle Forumite
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    This^^^


    My son cannot cook at all. He has a severe learning disability and also physical disabilities. He cannot open some packaging or use a tin opener, follow a recipe, use a timer (or tell the time), identify whether food is properly cooked, lift a pan or a kettle, chop veg safely, etc.



    He didn't score the full eight points for this descriptor.

    :eek: do you mind if I ask how on earth they justified that?!
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