how do i find where cold is coming in patio doors

gamston

hi folks, got upvc sliding patio doors about 12 yrs old,
there is cold air coming from around these doors,
I've sealed between the wall and frame with silicone & upvc trim strip
I've siliconed between frame and fixed unit
I've put foam sponge between the sliding parts

using the B&D thermal leak tester
with 2 sets of thermal curtains closed the floor room temp is 18c
behind the curtains its 13c on the bottom of the frame, at the top its 17c
the glass at the bottom is 9c
glass at the top is 15c
i'm not sure if the 9c at the bottom glass is due to cold air falling or the cold air coming in somehow at the bottom

anyone got any ideas how to sort or find where the cold comes from ?
I was thinking about putting parcel tape around the upvc window sealing trim to see if that reduces cold

Doozergirl

If you've already sealed what you can see, if you strip back the plasterboard around the reveal, you'll probably find large gaps between the window frame and the brickwork... most likely packed with newspaper. At the least you want expanding foam in there and to insulate the reveals.

gamston

I've sealed both outside and inside (where upvc frame & walls meet)
I've sealed where fixed window is secured to frame

missile

Double glazed units may look similar, but some are much better at insulation than others.

TELLIT01

Can you feel any draughts around the doors? If not it may simply be the cold being transferred through the glass. Even double glazing made 12 years ago is probably not as thermally efficient as new panels.

GDB2222

Is this a fair test? Two sets of thermal curtains closed, so the window is getting virtually no heat from the house. It’s bound to be colder than the room, and there may be nothing wrong with the windows at all. I don’t see how you can tell from those test results.

gamston

can't feel a draught, in summer tested for draught around frame with incense stick filled in the gaps I found
been googling for what the glass temp would be if outside was 7c etc but can't find anything

TELLIT01

gamston wrote: »

can't feel a draught, in summer tested for draught around frame with incense stick filled in the gaps I found
been googling for what the glass temp would be if outside was 7c etc but can't find anything

As there are no draughts, the cold penetration is likely down to the thermal loss through the window. Temperature difference between top and bottom is to be expected because hot air rises and cold falls, as you have said. We had old aluminium framed patio doors replaced by uPVC a few years ago and that made quite a difference. I appreciate that aluminium will conduct the heat/cold much more than uPVC, but the glass was better too.

RelievedSheff

Double glazing technology has come on leaps and bounds in the last 12 years.

Modern gas filled units achieve far better rates of insulation than older units ever did.

If the cold from the units is really causing a problem it might be time to consider changing them.

We have patio doors in the kitchen diner of our new build home. We have not gotten around to fitting the curtains over them yet but we have not experienced any transmission of cold through them. In fact we are reconsidering our decision to fit curtains to them as they are not over looked and we really don't like curtains in kitchens!

Carrot007

gamston wrote: »

anyone got any ideas how to sort or find where the cold comes from ?

a) Cheap but time heavy. Buy a cheap lazer temperature measurer and look for the cold spots.




b) Expensive but quick. Buy a thermal imaging device. The cheapest will do, £200/£300 will do it when there uis an offer on. ALDI even sell them at times (though may cost more than this).




c) Cheap but effort. Hack an existing camera by removing the IR filter to make you own thermal imaging device.




d) May cost a lot and take forever. Try random things and hope they work then start again!

vacheron

If you know someone who has access to a thermal imaging camera, you could borrow that, or hire a heating engineer or anyone else who may have one for an hour and ask them to take a look.

You could probably cover the rest of the house in that hour at the same time and look for any other cold spots.

I have access to one from work, it is amazing the stuff they pick up.
Attached are some photos I took when I borrowed ours.

An unusual cold spot behind the skirting board half way up our staircase.

Heating pipes running under the bedroom floor

oh, and the cat... obviously!