Tips to prove state of property before moving out and how to get maxumum deposit back?

user225688

Last time I moved out they charged their usual erroneous fees for deep cleans etc (I know this one is now banned under the new act) and they wouldn't give my deposit back when I contested it.

I finally got it back in full but in that case it was only when I threatened to take them to court for the deposit not having been protected for several years. Only the letter before action finally got them to cough up after 2-3 months of them giving me the run around and ignoring my emails.

But in that case I had that bargaining chip and they were clearly in the wrong. So what do I do when I don't have that leverage device on the table?

I know take lots of recordings before leaving. How do you prove the date? My mum says use a newspaper.

Also I will be needing a removal van so I will tell them to look around and be a witness.

Anything else?

I suppose if the deposit is protected then you just take it to the DPS rather than having to threaten court action like I had to last time, but still I will need all the evidence I can muster to present to them.

Has the fees ban made them less prone to take fees on this end or maybe they got worse if it means they need to take up the slack from the lost admin fees they were charging? I know that the deep clean is banned but not sure what else has been regulated in this department if anything?

Still the DPS is a good fallback. In the past, before I was an avid MSE reader, I had no idea about that recourse and would just have taken the hit.

AdrianC

It's very simple - the deposit protection scheme's arbitration require your landlord to prove the deductions are fair, with photographic before-and-after evidence.

If the deposit isn't in a protection scheme, then they simply cannot keep a penny of it - but, yes, you may well need to take them to court to recover it. They're operating outside the law anyway.

G_M

AdrianC wrote: »

It's very simple - the deposit protection scheme's arbitration require your landlord to prove the deductions are fair, with photographic before-and-after evidence.
the photos are not required though they help a landlord's case.


If the deposit isn't in a protection scheme, then they simply cannot keep a penny of it - but, yes, you may well need to take them to court to recover it. They're operating outside the law anyway.

If there is damage or items missing or excess dirt, then the LL can make deductions and keep a penny, or more, of it, even if unprocteted. But they cannot escape the penalty, which is separate.


But as Adrian says, the onus is on the LL to prove any deductions are fair. Obviously if you can show evidence proving otherwise, witness, ohotos of your own, receipt for cleaning, that casts the LL's claim into doubt.


It's easy to refer any dispute to arbitration - read up on the relevant scheme's website.

Comms69

user225688 wrote: »

Last time I moved out they charged their usual erroneous fees for deep cleans etc (I know this one is now banned under the new act - don't think cleaning costs are banned?? ) and they wouldn't give my deposit back when I contested it.

I finally got it back in full but in that case it was only when I threatened to take them to court for the deposit not having been protected for several years. Only the letter before action finally got them to cough up after 2-3 months of them giving me the run around and ignoring my emails.

But in that case I had that bargaining chip and they were clearly in the wrong. So what do I do when I don't have that leverage device on the table? - You would use the arbitration service. Also the penalty is worth far more than the deposit (which you can reclaim via small claims anyway) so really you used a sledgehammer, when actually you needed two different tools

I know take lots of recordings before leaving. How do you prove the date? My mum says use a newspaper. - Your mum is very clever.

Also I will be needing a removal van so I will tell them to look around and be a witness. - Please don't. That is just silly.

Anything else?

I suppose if the deposit is protected then you just take it to the DPS rather than having to threaten court action like I had to last time, but still I will need all the evidence I can muster to present to them. - Not really. the onus is on the landlord to prove any deductions. Photos would be more than ample

Has the fees ban made them less prone to take fees on this end or maybe they got worse if it means they need to take up the slack from the lost admin fees they were charging? - well since the money goes to the landlord, I don't see how that would work I know that the deep clean is banned - no it isn't but not sure what else has been regulated in this department if anything? - nothing in the act bans any deductions to deposits for damage / repairs / replacements

Still the DPS is a good fallback. In the past, before I was an avid MSE reader, I had no idea about that recourse and would just have taken the hit.

Photos are ample evidence

sal_III

There isn't much point in you taking evidence on check-out. The onus is on the LL to prove you damaged the property.

If there is check-in inventory, make sure that it includes all the pre-existing damages.

If there isn't check-in inventory, make an impromptu one, take photos of all the issues and e-mail them to the LL. The e-mail will be sufficient date stamp for TDS arbitration.

If your deposit isn't protected and getting it back at the end is a hassle - take the LL to court for some free cash.

user225688

I think that the actual owner has no idea about the property unless they got the pictures forwarded to them of the original builders of the property (who I signed the original contract with before the handover).

I know the landlord has never been here since I have lived here and some properties and the building were not even finished just as I was moving in so I don't see how they would have seen it before either.

Also there were no pictures given to me/in my notes from when I moved in either. So that means there is no inventory in place right and so neither me or the LL have that.

So what should I do in this case? Just take photos before moving out?

One thing with the walls is they used very cheap paint and the slightest wipe will remove it. This means that with small food splashes from the cooker, or slight bit of mold that was by windows, when I tried to wipe it even with a barely damp cloth the paint just wipes away with the stain I was trying to remove.

This is not my problem is it? Do I have to mention that as an 'issue' to the agents/ll before moveout? It isn't like I have wiped away huge swathes of paint, only like one or two maybe 1 cm patches but it depends if they check out inspector would use that as cause for a £100-200 repair job; or would that classify as general wear and tear?

I physically couldn't clean a couple of splashes off by normal means because I knew after this having happened that it would just wipe off the paint and replace the tiny food splash with a bald patch in the paint instead.

Comms69

user225688 wrote: »

I think that the actual owner has no idea about the property unless they got the pictures forwarded to them of the original builders of the property (who I signed the original contract with before the handover). - ok

I know the landlord has never been here since I have lived here and some properties and the building were not even finished just as I was moving in so I don't see how they would have seen it before either. - But presumably it being brand new, the condition would be deemed good to excellent when you took possession

Also there were no pictures given to me/in my notes from when I moved in either. - Well it's your job to take pictures when you move in. So that means there is no inventory in place right and so neither me or the LL have that. - an inventory is only one piece of evidence. It isn't a silver bullet

So what should I do in this case? Just take photos before moving out? - yes

One thing with the walls is they used very cheap paint and the slightest wipe will remove it. This means that with small food splashes from the cooker, or slight bit of mold that was by windows, when I tried to wipe it even with a barely damp cloth the paint just wipes away with the stain I was trying to remove. - Ok. Well you can either risk that argument, or repaint

This is not my problem is it? - well it is to a point. Whilst you 'may' not be liable, it's a case of arguing that successfully or making good the damage. Do I have to mention that as an 'issue' to the agents/ll before moveout? - should've been mentioned at the time It isn't like I have wiped away huge swathes of paint, only like one or two maybe 1 cm patches but it depends if they check out inspector would use that as cause for a £100-200 repair job - the checkout inspector doesn't cost jobs. They simply note the state of the property. £100-200 sounds about right for a painter / decorator for half day. ; or would that classify as general wear and tear?

I physically couldn't clean a couple of splashes off by normal means because I knew after this having happened that it would just wipe off the paint and replace the tiny food splash with a bald patch in the paint instead.

How long have you been there?

user225688

Comms69 wrote: »

How long have you been there?

Almost 3 years.

Comms69

user225688 wrote: »

Almost 3 years.

So realistically, given the poor quality paint, one could argue that the useful lifespan was only 3-5 years anyway.


So you would potentially only be liable for a fraction of the repainting cost.

akira181

You moved into a brand new build so presumably the missing paint and stains would come under damage beyond wear and tear considering you didn't notify the LL or estate agent at the time of questionable paint quality. You could argue that the quality was poor but it's no guarantee you'd be successful (unless other properties in the building have logged similar complaints and you can prove it) and you'd still be liable for a degree of repainting costs either way. One kitchen wall would be relatively easy to paint over yourself and save you some hassle.

Just take photos of everything when you move out, the metadata of the photo should be enough to prove when they were taken although I doubt it would be necessary. Without an inventory, it's down to the LL to prove those items were there when you moved in, they may have their own photos.

I'm doubtful that the LL has never been there though, who buys a new build house and doesn't have a look at it at some point in the process? Defects need to be snagged, of which there are always some. I don't think kitchenware, furniture, a mattress, etc would have been part of the builders remit either so the LL may have receipts / delivery records as proof of inventory. Don't know will that be sufficient for the DPS though since you never signed anything to confirm what was there.

user225688

So the deposit is unprotected from what I found today. Rang up all 3. The one it was originally with said it ran out the day of the handover took place and there was no info on file for me at the other two.

Interestingly the agents just emailed me saying they 'urgently' need to have access to my property for a Gas Safety Certificate to be completed. Could this be anything to do with them rushing to get it protected or is it standard protocol for the next tenant or some other reason unrelated to any of the above?

Also if they find out it is unprotected and manage to do so before I move (in about 2 weeks) does that mean they escape the penalty? It had been unprotected for almost 2 years. They already broke other rules though didn't they by not protecting it within 30 days and sending information of it being protected (because it wasn't).