Speeding ticket, calibration certificate

Mercdriver

SHAFT wrote: »

I thought you were done, have a look at my first post on this thread.

I do however admire your faith in our CPS if you think they'd run the case if the calibration is out.

Not a route I'd advise the op to take solely relying on the evidence so far.

Glad you eventually said that, Constable. Otherwise, put your money where youfr mouth is.

SHAFT

Mercdriver wrote: »

Glad you eventually said that, Constable. Otherwise, put your money where youfr mouth is.

Do keep up Rodney.

SHAFT wrote: »

You cant appeal a ticket, your only chance is reject it be summonsed to court and plead not guilty. Bit of of a risk to reject a course if they then produce a certificate.

Robisere

Car_54 wrote: »

We don’t know that. You’re probably right, but at this stage it’s simply an allegation.

You're technically right of course, nitpick as much as you like!

Manxman_in_exile

SHAFT wrote: »

However is the CPS get wind there's an out of date certificate then they'll discontinue the matter.

Are you saying (in this and I think other posts on this thread) that if you were aware of a camera where the calibration certificate had expired, you'd be quite happy to drive past it repeatedly at excess speed, safe in the knowledge that the CPS would never take it to court?*


Or are you saying something subtly different, like they'd only drop it if they were aware the certificate had expired? But then, if the validity of the certificate is so crucial as to whether they'd go ahead or not, surely the certificate would be checked as a matter of course, and it wouldn't be a question of "if they get wind of it" because they'd be checking it every time.


Sorry, but I'm curious to understand better what you are saying.


*Or if it did go to court you'd be confident that the lack of a current certificate was a cast iron defence?

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

Car_54 wrote: »

Were you really nicked for 34 in a 30? If you have evidence of that you should post it on Pepipoo.com: they’ve been looking for such a case for years.
Also, what speed was the other guy doing that was low enough for a course but high enough for six points?

Yes. On the Speed course the tolerance used in GShire was 1 mph and above!

ToxicWomble

Even if the certificate is out of date, when they realise and renew it and if no adjustments are required to the device then that would mean it was functioning fine.
Lots of Ifs and not sure how likely this is but it’s not something I would risk.

Take the fine and points or course

TooManyPoints

Even if the certificate is out of date, when they realise and renew it and if no adjustments are required to the device then that would mean it was functioning fine.
Lots of Ifs and not sure how likely this is but it’s not something I would risk.

This is a very pertinent and well made point. If such a challenge ("it's unreliable because its calibration certificate had expired") was made against a particular device and it was found in the defendant's favour (simply on that basis) it could potentially impact on a large number of other prosecutions (or Fixed Penalties) that had already been concluded. It may well be that the CPS would drop the case in order to avoid that fact (the expired certificate) becoming common knowledge. However, these days "common knowledge" is much easier to come by than it once was. My guess is that the device would be recalibrated and if found to require no adjustment then the prosecution would proceed. To emphasise once again, an expired calibration certificate does not render a device unreliable. Other proof of its unreliability would have to be adduced.

Uxb1

The question seems more of whether evidence from a camera with an expired cert is legally admissible rather than whether or not it is unreliable.
A bit like an MOT - if it is expired it is expired. The fact that you then go and get a new one done without any adjustments being made to the car does not alter the fact that the car was being used with an expired MOT certificate.

In other walks of life a piece of measuring equipment with an expired calibration certificate cannot be used - end of discussion, though in most of these cases its made easier as the test would not go ahead in the first place. So avoiding any discussions on the validity or otherwise of a test measured with an out of calibration item.

SHAFT

TooManyPoints wrote: »

This is a very pertinent and well made point. If such a challenge ("it's unreliable because its calibration certificate had expired") was made against a particular device and it was found in the defendant's favour (simply on that basis) it could potentially impact on a large number of other prosecutions (or Fixed Penalties) that had already been concluded. It may well be that the CPS would drop the case in order to avoid that fact (the expired certificate) becoming common knowledge. However, these days "common knowledge" is much easier to come by than it once was. My guess is that the device would be recalibrated and if found to require no adjustment then the prosecution would proceed. To emphasise once again, an expired calibration certificate does not render a device unreliable. Other proof of its unreliability would have to be adduced.

If there's a window without a calibration certificate CPS will drop all pending cases.

Look at the farce of the wrong font on the M42 variable speed limit. We all know what a number in a red circle means but it wasn't good enough.

TooManyPoints

The question seems more of whether evidence from a camera with an expired cert is legally admissible rather than whether or not it is unreliable.

Yes it would be admissible. It would be for the court to decide how much weight to give it.