Dependent Adult, Parent Working, Housing Element of UC?

LocoLoco

Morning all, I was wondering about upcoming changes to our financial situation and wondered if anyone might know a bit more?


My son will turn 18 and leave full time education next year. Currently he is on my claim for UC. He is on Enhanced Rate PIP for both categories (complex needs) and I'm expecting him to qualify for LCWRA element of UC once he's out of full time education (I know what I expect and what actually happens might not be the same thing but he still needs 24 hour support so work or work related activity still seems a very long way off).


I am about to start doing some work from home for a friend who has a small business - all above board, I will notify UC and Carer's Allowance. It will only be part time work to start with but I'm hoping to increase my hours over time and it would be nice to get off UC altogether.


I did wonder if my son's UC claim would include any housing element towards the rent? We need two beds as we are both adults but he isn't on the tenancy agreement and won't be going on it as he doesn't have capacity to deal with legal matters so I've assumed that all the time he lives with me he doesn't need a Tenancy Agreement of his own (I did post about it a while ago on the Landlord board and they thought that was right as well). But I did wonder how it would affect the claim and if we'd be treated as two separate adults who pay half each, or if I'd continue to pay and/or claim for the full amount - or if he becomes ineligible and I can only claim for a one bedroom for myself and he can't claim for anything?


I am aware we can apply for SMI for the council tax but have been wondering about the rent - just trying to foresee any possible problems and changes before they happen so I'm not caught out with a sudden drop in income I wasn't prepared for


If anyone has any info or can point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

calcotti

LocoLoco wrote: »

I did wonder if my son's UC claim would include any housing element towards the rent? We need two beds as we are both adults but he isn't on the tenancy agreement and won't be going on it as he doesn't have capacity to deal with legal matters so I've assumed that all the time he lives with me he doesn't need a Tenancy Agreement of his own (I did post about it a while ago on the Landlord board and they thought that was right as well). But I did wonder how it would affect the claim and if we'd be treated as two separate adults who pay half each, or if I'd continue to pay and/or claim for the full amount - or if he becomes ineligible and I can only claim for a one bedroom for myself and he can't claim for anything?

I think it works like this.
Your extended household will still include him so if you are claiming UC you will still be entitled to two bedrooms. Because he gets PIP he will not be expected to make a contribution to the rent so there will not be a non-dependant deduction.
His UC claim will not include anything for rent because he is not liable for it as he is not on the tenancy agreement.

pmlindyloo

calcotti wrote: »

I think it works like this.
Your extended household will still include him so if you are claiming UC you will still be entitled to two bedrooms. Because he gets PIP he will not be expected to make a contribution to the rent so there will not be a non-dependant deduction.
His UC claim will not include anything for rent because he is not liable for it as he is not on the tenancy agreement.

I agree.

No non dependent deduction because he is receiving standard living PIP. Also no non dependent deduction because he is under 21.

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/non-dependants

Also no housing element for him as he is not liable for rent.

Just a 'heads up' and to add that if/when you increase your hours/earnings you can still claim the carer's element of UC as there are no restriction on earnings allowed (although they would obviously be counted as income.) You would have to close your Carer's Allowance claim if you no longer meet the eligibility criteria for the benefit.

Just make sure you report change of circumstances in your journal.

calcotti

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Also no non dependent deduction because he is under 21.

I'd forgotten that!

poppy12345

LocoLoco wrote: »

We need two beds as we are both adults but he isn't on the tenancy agreement and won't be going on it as he doesn't have capacity to deal with legal matters

Has he been assessed as not have capacity? If not then it's wrong to say a person doesn't have capacity until an assessment has been completed.



It's exactly the same for my daughter who's 18. I personally don't think she does but i can't state this until an assessment has been completed.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/making-decisions-for-someone-else/mental-capacity-act/

huckster

It makes no difference even if you could amend the tenancy to claim in two names. Keep it simple. You claim the Housing under your name. If it is social sector such as Housing association, then UC pay the rent/service charges, with no deductions, unless there was a spare bedroom. With private sector rent you are restricted to LHA rate for number of bedrooms.

In regard to the work you will be doing at home for a friends business. Will this be reported to HMRC, as if you were an employee, so your wages are registered with HMRC every week or month ? Or will this be on a self employed basis ? UC will need to know exact basis.

LocoLoco

calcotti wrote: »

I think it works like this.
Your extended household will still include him so if you are claiming UC you will still be entitled to two bedrooms. Because he gets PIP he will not be expected to make a contribution to the rent so there will not be a non-dependant deduction.
His UC claim will not include anything for rent because he is not liable for it as he is not on the tenancy agreement.

Thank you for this, Calcotti, that makes things sound relatively simple which is a bonus I felt I understood the previous system fairly well but am still getting my head around UC and my son going from child to adult benefits so I'm double checking everything. So far we've not had any major problems and I've been able to manage each change as it's come so it's reassuring that he can just stay on my claim for the rent part, it seems to make life a bit easier, thank you

LocoLoco

pmlindyloo wrote: »

I agree.

No non dependent deduction because he is receiving standard living PIP. Also no non dependent deduction because he is under 21.

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/non-dependants

Also no housing element for him as he is not liable for rent.

Just a 'heads up' and to add that if/when you increase your hours/earnings you can still claim the carer's element of UC as there are no restriction on earnings allowed (although they would obviously be counted as income.) You would have to close your Carer's Allowance claim if you no longer meet the eligibility criteria for the benefit.

Just make sure you report change of circumstances in your journal.

Thank you for this, pmlindyloo, I've got the info about the amounts I can earn before CA is affected (I'll definitely be earning less than the permitted amount to start with). There are some allowable expenses, apparently, so I'll check that as well. I'll update UC and CA at each stage and with any change and keep everything written down - I'm quite paranoid about getting something wrong and getting in to trouble so I am quite cautious about it all and would rather give them info they don't need than miss something they do I think what's helpful with UC is that I won't have to work a certain number of hours if I have the Carer's element included which gives me time to build up without any pressure which will help. Thanks for the info and the clarification

LocoLoco

poppy12345 wrote: »

Has he been assessed as not have capacity? If not then it's wrong to say a person doesn't have capacity until an assessment has been completed.



It's exactly the same for my daughter who's 18. I personally don't think she does but i can't state this until an assessment has been completed.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/making-decisions-for-someone-else/mental-capacity-act/

Hi Poppy, yes, it is official, although it did make me wonder if it needs to be reviewed at some point (not because I think the situation's changed but if it's just something that needs to be renewed. I'll have to check). Just out of interest, have you had any problems with anyone trying to get your D to sign something she doesn't understand? I've been quite strict about things as I don't want my son to get in to the habit of signing anything that's put under his nose (even if it is something he understands and him signing it isn't a problem I'd still like him to go through a checking process with someone just to protect him from those times he doesn't understand) but I've met with resistance to that from college staff and a social worker. I've had to be quite firm, I just wondered if you get similar or are you finding people a bit more understanding?

LocoLoco

huckster wrote: »

It makes no difference even if you could amend the tenancy to claim in two names. Keep it simple. You claim the Housing under your name. If it is social sector such as Housing association, then UC pay the rent/service charges, with no deductions, unless there was a spare bedroom. With private sector rent you are restricted to LHA rate for number of bedrooms.

In regard to the work you will be doing at home for a friends business. Will this be reported to HMRC, as if you were an employee, so your wages are registered with HMRC every week or month ? Or will this be on a self employed basis ? UC will need to know exact basis.

Thanks, Huckster, I'll be working on a self employed basis, I'm just reading up on it all at the minute with regards to tax and NI (although I'll be under the tax limit for a while I'd have thought) and with record keeping and so on. I think for me it will be relatively straightforward (or at least it seems that way at the minute!) but I am quite cautious about these sort of things so I will read and double check everything I'm supposed to do. It is quite a lot to take in at the minute but I am chipping away at it and hopefully it will all pay off in the long run

11krage

Well done to you for making a plan to get off benefits. It's refreshing to see someone of that mindset.

When your son stops education go to report a change, people who live with you. Report your son as an other person living with you rather than a child. Make sure you do this before helping him make a UC claim himself as the last thing you want is someone to find out you've made an attempt to claim double the money for him for the same period.

When you enter his details (and anyone else in your household) make sure you look out for the part that asks if he has any disability benefits and enter appropriately. As someone has mentioned the system won't try to take a non dependent deduction until he's 22, but with PIP on the system it also won't take a deduction at that point. Though hopefully by then you'll be off UC.

As he'll still be in the household UC will allocate one of the bedrooms to him, and one to you, so you'll still receive the same amount of housing you have already.

I'm guessing from what you've written your son will need an appointee to manage their claim. If you can apply for power of attorney before he makes his claim this could help you avoid long waits. UC can assess whether someone needs an appointee themselves, but this involves referring them for a home visit. Unfortunately I'm not exaggerating when I say the visiting team who carries these out can take months to visit you.

Whereas if you have power of attorney already and can provide evidence and attend the jobcentre with your son it can be as simple as a work coach filling out a form there and then to say they've seen this proof. It can be tempting to wait for home visits for the mandatory appointments when disability is involved. There can be quite a few appointments depending on how much you're able to verify online, but it's always much quicker to attend the jobcentre with your son to get these first appointments out of the way rather than wait around for home visits.

He will need to provide fit notes and go through the wca process once he starts his UC claim. So don't be surprised at that. He'll need to supply constant fit notes until a decision as to whether he's fit for work has been made.