Kickstarter fraud - getting a refund

phin

Hi all,

In September last year I backed a project on Kickstarter. As of today they have still not delivered. I would like my money back, but Kickstarter have resolved themselves of all blame and the seller has not responded to multiple emails.

What are my options? I bought it through Lloyds but it was over 120 days ago - are they likely to reimburse through their fraud department?

Would this be different to "chargeback? Should I call Lloyds and ask for this specifically?

Or am I just completely uncovered since I made the payment and they haven't delivered it?!

The seller is in the US and there is no known individual to contact.

Your advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Phin

sourcrates

A quick Google informs me this is some kind of crowdfunding project, what did you pay for exactly and how did you pay for it, did you use a credit card ?

WhenIam64

Kickstarter is an investment portal. Can't see a CC company getting involved as the OP mentions chargeback and not CC. It would be an interesting legal case to see if the item was offered as a product or an investment.

More details please.

[Deleted User]

If the company went bust that's a risk you took giving them money. Not every idea is so great.

boo_star

WhenIam64 wrote: »

Kickstarter is an investment portal. Can't see a CC company getting involved as the OP mentions chargeback and not CC. It would be an interesting legal case to see if the item was offered as a product or an investment.

More details please.

Even if it was a product, I can't see this being treated differently to a PayPal transaction, i.e. Kickstarter are just the middleman facilitating the transfer from the OP to whoever is running the campaign and as such they have done what the were required to do (transfer the funds.)

monetxchange

From my limited Kickstarter knowledge, you only actually pay when the project is funded, and then you pay to receive the product. If the product hasn't been received, I'd imagine Kickstarter have to take some liability as the facilitator. Have you fully followed their complaints procedure? What was the outcome?

Like others have said, crowdfunding is not dissimilar to investment. Often these things are just ideas by random people who have no experience in knowledge in actually producing them, even when they have the money. It's just "wouldn't it be cool if ... existed?" Have a Google into the Coolest Cooler saga - a Kickstarter for a bells and whistles beach drinks cooler that raised millions and it turned out people waited for years for any production to start. When they did show up, they were effectively useless as the makers' dreams and design reality were at opposing ends of the spectrum. From that tale, it seems like as long as the Kickstarting company is still claiming to be making the thing you paid for, you're effectively still owed it and out of pocket until it shows up, whenever in the future that may be.

phin

I used a Lloyds Visa Debit card.

monetxchange wrote: »

Have you fully followed their complaints procedure? What was the outcome?

Yes, I have contacted them twice. Their latest reply is as follows:

"I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing frustration with this project.

If you are interested in getting a refund for this project, please reach out directly to the creator. While we work with creators to help them find funding for their projects, all money raised goes directly to the creator and is managed by the creator (with only a small fee passing through Kickstarter's hands).

To get in contact with a creator, I recommend messaging them through our platform, leaving a comment on their page, or reaching out through their social channels or website (where they might be more readily available for questions).

Though I can't assist directly with getting a reimbursement, I am here to help. Hiccups can happen along the way when bringing a creative idea to life, but that shouldn't turn into a bad experience for you as a backer. I hope this matter is resolved soon and am happy to help if you have any other questions or concerns."

monetxchange wrote: »

it seems like as long as the Kickstarting company is still claiming to be making the thing you paid for, you're effectively still owed it and out of pocket until it shows up, whenever in the future that may be.

Exactly. It is incredibly frustrating that this is allowed to happen. I actually wondered where it sat WRT to P2P lending laws. I mean you're not buying a product, but pledging money to a company in return for a product. I had wondered whether it's covered by the FCA, or if the fact that Kickstarter is in the US negates that? From what they say here - fca.org.uk/consumers/crowdfunding - it sounds like they might? I paid £176 but frankly I would be happy to lose that if I could force Kickstarter to become liable when this kind of thing happens.

This is the project if you're curious: kickstarter.com/projects/revivblanket/reviv-the-affordable-and-eco-friendly-weighted-bla/description (you will need to add the triple-W as I'm a new user and can't post URLs as I might still be a spammer)

They've raised $1.2 million, and are also on IndieGogo.

Click the Updates tab, and if you scroll down you'll see the constant excuses from the company ("company" as they seem to have no identifiable people behind them), and you can also see a LOT of angry comments.

Frankly I am angry and quite up for a fight, so any ideas would be appreciated! (Especially if you have any idea around the legalities, which I do not). Might drop the FCA an email in the meantime and see what they think.

Thanks very much for all your responses

monetxchange

No expert, but it does sound like somewhat of a legal grey area. The company aren't effectively refusing to send you the item, they're just delaying delivery for a hell of a long time. Though surely there has to be a cancellation and refund procedure, which it sounds like the company are refusing to engage with. Have you considered writing to the Ombudsman or similar to raise this, as it might kickstart (pun intended) a closer look into how this process works and how buyers can be protected.

From the updates, it sounds like the product isn't up to much anyway. Hopefully you can push them for a refund and buy a weighted blanket with better reviews, as this really is an unknown entity in terms of quality...

Takmon

You seem to have misunderstood how kickstarter and similar websites work. Your money is an investment in the company, just like if you buy shares in a company and they go bust you have no right to your money back.

In the case of kickstarter you are investing in an idea and if they manage to make it work they will send you one. If they fail you have no recourse unless they committed fraud and lied to obtain the money.
This is all explained clearly when you pledge money.

stvn66

The solution in simple. All credit card companies should block any Kickstarter payments and request you call them first. You should then be warned that you have NO CREDIT CARD PROTECTION and that you continue at your own peril.

sourcrates

Year old thread.