PayPal fraud

Jembur1607

So I'll start off with. Yes I fell for a scam, I know now I shouldn't have done it and yes I was an idiot.

It all started on the 30th August 2019 around midnight. I received a message from my brother in law on Facebook asking if he could receive some payments through my PayPal and could transfer them to his bank. Now this was not totally out of the ordinary as previously he has used my PayPal before.
3 payments of 260 were paid into my PayPal Account 1 from 1 account called susan and 2 from another called George. I asked my brother in law to ring me with his bank details but he said he couldn't as had his little boy asleep on him and with him being deaf he would also wake up his house mates. Which I know has happened before and so didn't think anything of it. I received the bank details via messenger and sent the money over via bank transfer.

This is where I started to realise this maybe a scam and he has been hacked and I've been part of a scam.
I messaged to say the money had been sent and nothing no replies. So I start looking into things and the do a reverse sort code search now this comes up with a online German bank, my brother in law is not German and with him being dead I know he prefers over counter service.

I search for the people and addresses the money came from. Susan is an house address and the person has only a Pinterest account but has a different name. George is an industrial building and the name brings up nothing. I then start panicking so do a reverse email search looking for ip address. Now they come up as in America when the addresses are in the UK.
By this time it is 2am on the 31st. And low and behold 2 of the payment have been claimed as chargebacks for unauthorised transactionsthe one from susan and one from George. I query these with paypal and the one from George goes in my favour quite quickly. Phew I think PayPal have realised its a scam and are not holding me liable.
I have now fully realised its a scam and I could be in trouble.
I contact action fraud and file a case.
I contact the police and report the fraud.
I contact the bank the money got sent to and notify them of fradulant payments that have been part of a scam and that the police have been contacted.
By this time it is nearer 4am.
The police have made me an appointment for 4.30pm to take in all my evidence.
During this time I contact my brother in laws Housemate, his girlfriend and my mother in law.
I'm frantically doing Google searches to find out what I can do I find the code for banks on authorised push payment scams.
So I contact my bank and notify them of the payments and tell them I have fallen victim to this scam so they start there investigations. They advise me to cancel my cards and the direct debit with PayPal.
I am in constant contact with PayPal and they just keep saying you'll have to wait for the result on the second chargeback. But if there is anything else they can help with they will.
Now it is almost 9am and my brother in law calls. He is in shock as his Facebook has been hacked and all messages between myself and him have been deleted. He agrees to come to the police station with me to show his account and prove it wasn't him.
Whilst at the police station George files his 2nd chargeback and the one from Susan has gone in her favour so my PayPal is in negative £260. I contact PayPal while there and they refuse to speak to the police officer due to them not being able to speak to some about my account on my behalf even with my permission. I am told not to worry as the first from George was decided in my favour so hopefully so should the 2nd.
Its now almost 11pm on the 31st Aug and I receive a notification from PayPal about my dispute. I go to read the decision and they have gone in George's favour so now my account is negative £520.
The police tell me that as I am a victim of fraud PayPal should use my crime reference number to utilise the amount against there insurance. PayPal however are telling me they cannot do this as it is not their policy.

Forwarding to mid september, after weeks of constant phonecalls from them asking for the money and the collections team staying there is nothing they can do regarding the decisions and I need to clear the amount. I refuse obviously.

My bank have tried to claim the money back under the new code but as the other bank have allowed the scammer to remove the funds and close the account they cannot get it back.
The bank then advise me to go to the financial ombudsman about PayPal as how can they go in my favour for one and not the others? I ask PayPal this and they cannot tell me why.

I file a claim to the financial ombudsman with all my information but as they are busy I am awaiting contact.
Forward to last week and a debt collection company called Arc Europe have contactede via email and text to say they have been passed my account details to tain the balance of £520 from me to clear the balance and remove any limitations on my PayPal account. If I do not contact them within the next 14 days they will obtain further instruction from PayPal on recovery of the debt.

I email arc Europe informing them that I am victim of fraud with regards to this amount and give them the reference numbers. And that it has been filed with the financial ombudsman and I am not liable to pay this amount due to the circumstances and I believe PayPal have acted unlawfully. I receive an automated reply stating they will reply within 14 days. Today I receive a letter from arc Europe mimicking the email.
I have also been in contact with the receiving bank to ask whau a hold was not placed on the account to prevent the money being withdrawn with it being suspected fradulant. They cannot tell me why so I am in the process of filing a claim the financial ombudsman against them too.

Sorry for the long post and I hope this is in the right place.

Does any one have any advice on dealing with Arc Europe? PayPal and fradulant payments or what my next steps should be. I cannot afford to pay this 520 and feel like they are allowing scammers to use there business as a money laundering middle man.

Thankyou for taking the time to read and thanks in advance for your replies.

kazwookie

Blimey I cannot even read all that , can you break it down into important parts and paragraphs?



It first bit I did read about paypal, I suggest you ring them.

Jembur1607

Sorry. Its my first post and a lot of information to take in I've tried to separate it to make it hopefully easier.

Brock_and_Roll

This all boils down to why you think Paypal have acted unlawfully? - what is the thrust of your argument that they have?

On the face of it, it is not their fault you sent a payment to a fraudster. As the money had already gone to the 3rd party bank and they were unable to get it back in time, they are now out of pocket.....so why do you think they should be liable rather that you?

sourcrates

ARC Europe can be ignored for now, there client is Paypal, and they are acting on their behalf, so they are just a powerless 3rd party in all of this, all bark, no bite.


Paypal are notoriously difficult when it comes to complaints handling, did you follow Paypals complaints procedure giving them 8 weeks to issue a final response ?

Because if you didnt, the FOS will not be able to get involved until either, Paypal issue a final response, or 8 weeks have passed and they have not contacted you.

Jembur1607

I believe PayPal have been unlawful because they had taken the evidence and reference numbers and given one of the payments in my favour but not followed suit on the other 2 that are under the same crime redence numbers.

Yes I know it is my fault I fell for such a scam and yes I know PayPal will be and are already out of pocket. Isn't that why companies have such insurances to cover themselves and their customers against such types of instances.

Jembur1607

I followed all of there procedures and even went through resolver on here and filed the complaint after I had there final response. They were very quick to do so. It's all in the case file.

What will Arc Europes next steps be and when will it be likely to go any further than them barking.

sourcrates

Jembur1607 wrote: »

What will Arc Europes next steps be and when will it be likely to go any further than them barking.

Obviously I cannot predict the actions of a multi national conglomerate, but they do not own the debt, paypal do, ARC can do nothing except write/call/email/text you to ask you to pay, thats as far as it goes with them.
It would be up to Paypal to decide if legal action were appropriate or not, and to date I do not know of one single case Paypal has ever brought to court, usually they would just wash their hands of the debt and sell it on, then the game starts again with another player.

EssexHebridean

For anyone else reading this please remember never EVER to accept bank details from someone to transfer money to via message or email - and if you do receive them that way always instigate a call to check the details of them over the telephone. As you can see from the above it's incredibly easy to be caught out, particularly if the whole dealing follows a not unfamilar pattern.

Jembur1607

I've shared my experience on lots of social media sites to warn others of such scams. It has been a very difficult and costly lesson learned.
Absolutely agree even if they are the most trustworthy person you know be very careful and don't do anything without speaking to the person direct.

monetxchange

Jembur1607 wrote: »

I believe PayPal have been unlawful because they had taken the evidence and reference numbers and given one of the payments in my favour but not followed suit on the other 2 that are under the same crime redence numbers.

Yes I know it is my fault I fell for such a scam and yes I know PayPal will be and are already out of pocket. Isn't that why companies have such insurances to cover themselves and their customers against such types of instances.

I can't see how processing a payment translates into them acting unlawfully. They weren't to know it was a scam either. I wish you luck with this, but I'm not sure it can be proved to the relevant standard that they acted irresponsibly. They might give in as a gesture, or write a little of it off.

It might be an expensive lesson not to get involved with vague money transfers for other people, not even family. There's a few red flags here for me on how supposedly far-removed hackers would know how to communicate with you to such an extent that you believed it was your brother in law (knowing he was deaf and never wants to wake up his son etc), but maybe I'm too suspicious. But it pays to be boringly cautious!