Reasonable payment for work (kitchen fitter)

dunroving

Long story short, but my kitchen fitter just walked off the job (or fired himself, as I see it).

So far, he has been to my house on 3 occasions:

1) Occasion 1 - first meeting, discussed what I was thinking of, where I saw things going, etc. He then used an online CAD programme to send me a design, and made some changes to said design (he had included a chest freezer in my understairs cupboard and I'd said definitively that I didn't want it there).
2) Occasion 2 - brought some samples (including sample of a door he swore that I'd said I wanted, but I know definitively that I didn't, because I wouldn't have asked for a high-gloss, handle-less door). He subsequently sent me a quote based on costs for materials from his supplier, his work, etc.
3) Occasion 3 (today) - he helped me to strip out some floor units (two small cupboards, two corner units, and a sink/drainer unit. He was at my house for approximately 4 hours.

Before he walked off the job, he had a rant about how he'd been to my house three times now, he lived 25 miles away, which meant 150 miles of driving so far, and he had stripped out my kitchen, "all unpaid" (his words). I said that I would be sure he got paid for his work so far, all he needed to do was let me know what I owed him and I would pay it.

His response on the spot was "£400" (as if I was going to pay him on the spot). I suggested he send me an itemized invoice, and I would pay it. (For one thing, if he bills me for travel, he can go swing).

Based on my description above, is £400 a reasonable amount? I don't count his first visit, as that was what I would term a "quote visit", and unless agreed before hand, I don't think a tradesperson should be paid for an initial quote visit.

I won't get into why he fired himself (essentially), but he has issues - I think most people would tell him to go swing for his money, but I look at it that I should pay him for doing the CAD design (because I may still use it), and for his time and expertise today.

TELLIT01

Trades seem to be charging around £150 per day so, CAD drawings and changes would take about 1/2 day, bringing samples etc about the same, and 1/2 day today. Trades will expect to be paid for their travelling time as that is part of their working day. Add 3 hours for that. You now have roughly 2 full days so £300 to £400 isn't that far off the mark.

adonis

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Trades seem to be charging around £150 per day so, CAD drawings and changes would take about 1/2 day, bringing samples etc about the same, and 1/2 day today. Trades will expect to be paid for their travelling time as that is part of their working day. Add 3 hours for that. You now have roughly 2 full days so £300 to £400 isn't that far off the mark.

But did the op know he lived that far away and it sounds like he wanted to add things the op told him he did not want, so wait until you get the invoice and reduce it accordingly.

Kernel_Sanders

Quotes are part of a business's overheads. Also, seems like he was trying to fob you off with stuff other customers have rejected.

You've basically got 4 hours of work out of him, semi-skilled at best.
Why would that be worth remotely near £400?

dunroving

Thanks, both. I'm usually the first person to defend tradies, when I read comments like "What a cheek! He only fitted a tap and charged me £30!". However, he has never brought up the fact he lives 25 miles away, and personally I think if the distance was an issue he should have just said sorry, the job is too far. He's currently doing a job in Bicester! (75 miles way ....)

I don't usually get more than 2-3 quotes, and ALWAYS get back to anyone who has given me a quote, even if I decide to go with someone else. I feel like I treat tradies with the respect they deserve and am usually lucky enough that they do the same for me.

In this case, this guy was recommended by a friend, who is a bit of a soft touch and works with Mr Kitchen Fitter's wife. I therefore didn't get additional quotes and when his quote came in as affordable and (I think) reasonable, I just said let's go ahead. On reflection, this guy is very competent at his job but is a very poor communicator, and has a very unfortunate demeanour (which until now I have adjusted to and given him a bit of leeway).

This morning, he came to remove all my floor units. I spent 3-4 hours yesterday removing about one third of them, and unscrewing worktops ready to be lifted today. I didn't feel confident enough to disconnect the plumbing but essentially all he had left to do was remove the worktop with sink/drainer/plumbing connections, two corner units, and one long piece of worktop. (pus 4 appliances, which I helped him with)

When he walked in, before he had even got into the kitchen, he started giving me grief because I "wasn't ready" (in his words) - there was still a toaster, kettle, coffee, tea, sugar, etc. on the worktop (i.e., 5 minutes work for me to pack in a box and get it out of his way). I just took a deep breath and ignored the other brusque remarks he made every now and again. Essentially, it felt like he has a lot going on and walked in determined to pick a fight on someone (me), i.e., take his problems out on me. It went downhill from there and when he threatened to walk out on the job, I simply said that was his prerogative. It was the second weirdest encounter I've had with a tradie.

I'll just pay the £400 and be done with it.

dunroving

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

Quotes are part of a business's overheads. Also, seems like he was trying to fob you off with stuff other customers have rejected.

You've basically got 4 hours of work out of him, semi-skilled at best.
Why would that be worth remotely near £400?

Thanks, I agree re: quotes being part of the overheads, so visit #1 shouldn't be paid for.

I also think if distance is an issue, then be up front - if a tradie says "It will take me 1hr to get here and 1hr back home each day, so I'll only be working 10-4, and so the job will take an additional 2 days - that's why labour is a bit higher than normal", I'd say "Fine", or "OK, sounds like travel is an issue, let's pass".

I'd say I have maybe had 8hrs of his time (CAD, which I can use, plus this morning's work). Visit 1 was the meet and greet/quote visit, and Visit 2 was showing me samples (he is a 1-man band who carries samples in a suitcase, so you can't go to a showroom to see kitchens and choose). He sources his stuff from Ideal Kitchens, Cannock.

I should deduct £100 for mental stress. ;-)

McKneff

Then add the £100 back on for his mental stress.

You actually sound a bit of a nightmare to work for, to be honest.

Next time, outline every thing you want, get 3 written quotes, not estimates, and go from there

dunroving

I don't know what you're basing your judgement on, but I have never had problems with trades before, and as I said, I stick up for them when folks complain about how much they're charged for changing a tap.

Last summer I had a major refurb on my house, with five different trades involved. Went smoothly, got on well, made regular cups of coffee, and paid bills within 24 hrs. Have had two of them back for minor jobs since.

I guess there's just no pleasing some people.

Doozergirl

dunroving wrote: »

I don't know what you're basing your judgement on, but I have never had problems with trades before, and as I said, I stick up for them when folks complain about how much they're charged for changing a tap.

Last summer I had a major refurb on my house, with five different trades involved. Went smoothly, got on well, made regular cups of coffee, and paid bills within 24 hrs. Have had two of them back for minor jobs since.

I guess there's just no pleasing some people.

They're not basing it on anything. I have no doubt that you're reasonable but I think you've been sucked in by someone working with someone's wife and that isn't a genuine recommendation of a trade, it's a personal relationship, not based on any experience of the work.

If you want me to pass your plan to our Howdens branch, I'll do it for nothing. They're really keen to hit target and it may (or may not) help me out with a price on a massive kitchen that I want to buy. It might help you out more, tbh, but if it costs me nothing...

dunroving

Thanks for the offer, D. I'll get in touch later. I am currently emptying my whole ground floor ready for C&C to screed the floor tomorrow. I'll post an update on that in my other thread.

I maybe didn't clarify in my earlier post, but he installed my friend's kitchen a few years back, so I have seen the quality of his work. I think he is having some sort of personal problems at the moment and that is affecting his judgement.