Credit Card holder death.

Tom99

pearl123 wrote: »

Thank you for the info.
No it's not over IHT limit. I will inherit a small terraced house in the uk, plus the useless piece of land in France. Do i need a professional valuation for the land? Or would an letter written 20 years ago by a French solicitor valuing the land at zero value and offering to try and sell it for 1 franc be enough?

In which case you fill in form IHT205.
Answer question 5 - Did the deceased own or benefit from any assets outside the UK? - YES
Question 9.5 - Assets outside of the UK - £0 £1 or whatever.
Question - Further information - use that box to give as brief as possible description, attach the French solicitor letter.
I don't think you need a valuation. It's only likely to be queried if you are close to the IHT limit.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/inheritance-tax-forms

getmore4less

Depending on the will you may be able to renounce just the french land

BUT

You need to check French inheritance laws they are different


Does the current squatter pay enough to cover the bill?

pearl123

Tom99 wrote: »

In which case you fill in form IHT205.
Answer question 5 - Did the deceased own or benefit from any assets outside the UK? - YES
Question 9.5 - Assets outside of the UK - £0 £1 or whatever.
Question - Further information - use that box to give as brief as possible description, attach the French solicitor letter.
I don't think you need a valuation. It's only likely to be queried if you are close to the IHT limit.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/inheritance-tax-forms

This has given me some hope that it can be resolved, without costing too much.
Two issues which are a slight concern. Firstly, the land was in my fathers name and although my mother inherited from him, it was never officially transferred into her name, due to it being worthless. Now she has passed away.
The second is my mother received pension credit and I”m aware that the dwp sometimes look through accounts of the deceased to make sure that there have been no overpayments. They might check assets. Would the dwp want a more official validation of land or do you think a 20 year old solicitors letter would still be sufficient? I have mentioned this letter to dwp in the past.
There have been no change of circumstances with the land, no road access and still a squatter. The squatter pays nothing.

The land is worthless, yet it incurs a charge due to the ruined wood structure. To remove the structure would be costly and difficult.

Clearly, I want to do my upmost to not run up large bills both in the Uk and abroad for a worthless piece of land.

Norman_Castle

Or would an letter written 20 years ago by a French solicitor valuing the land at zero value and offering to try and sell it for 1 franc be enough?

A 20 year old valuation would be considered out of date if questioned. If that was the last attempt to sell the land things might have changed now. Offer it to neighbouring properties. If there is no access who is the squatter, a neighbour?

pearl123

Norman_Castle wrote: »

A 20 year old valuation would be considered out of date if questioned. If that was the last attempt to sell the land things might have changed now. Offer it to neighbouring properties. If there is no access who is the squatter, a neighbour?

The land was offered to the nearby farmer 20 years ago and and advert was later put in a local paper. There has been no upkeep of the land for 60 plus years.
The land now backs onto a major railway line. The squatter is someone who's put a an large shed to store his hay and other equipment. They are somehow managing to use the area. They do not wish to purchase even for a token gesture. I personally have not been in contact with this squatter, but an acquaintance managed to speak to him. However, this acquaintance has not responded this year to me, as they are busy and perhaps too old to deal with it.

The local administration view the land, as having some value due to illegal structures on it. There is a yearly charge of Euro 100.


A extract of translated Solicitors letter. From 1996

"Given these various planning regulations, in my opinion it would be difficult to justify the cost of a public sale for a plot of land measuring 6 ares (French unit of measurement), located in an agricultural zone. The local urban planning regulations and requirements of which, also impose demolition costs.
I believe that this land can therefore be recorded as having zero, if not negative, value.
At best, would you and your clients consider transferring the land to the owner of adjacent agricultural land for a token amount of one franc?"

I've been an at home carer with a very limited budget.
I could try and remove the illegal structures, but that would require permits and somehow gaining decent access. It could be difficult to arrange and costly. There would be nothing to stop someone building something on the land again. Trying to remove the structures would also perhaps delay probate.
I grateful to those who have offered advice.

Malthusian

getmore4less wrote: »

With disclaimers you can select which legacy you want to keep, you can't split one.

You are right but it is important to note that by "which legacy" we mean separate clauses in the Will, not individual assets.

HMRC_IHTM35161 wrote:

If Alan is left a pecuniary legacy of £70,000 he must disclaim the whole amount and cannot purport to disclaim, say, £10,000 of it.

If Alan received a pecuniary legacy of £20,000, and under a separate clause, a one third share of the residue, he could effectively disclaim the £20,000 without giving up the residuary bequest, (or vice versa).

So as I understand it, if the Will said "My worthless lump of French dirt to Pearl123" (leaving aside for the moment that the mother didn't actually own the land, her husband's estate did) and in a later, separate clause "My residuary estate to Pearl123", the OP could disclaim the first legacy.

However if the Will only said "My residuary estate to Pearl123" and the residuary estate included the French clod, the OP can't disclaim it without disclaiming all the rest of the money.

Post #21 suggests it's the latter, sadly. There is no French Will which means the English Will applies and it appears that they can't renounce the land without giving up the rest of the estate.

pearl123 wrote: »

This has given me some hope that it can be resolved, without costing too much.
Two issues which are a slight concern. Firstly, the land was in my fathers name and although my mother inherited from him, it was never officially transferred into her name, due to it being worthless. Now she has passed away.

If it was me I would be strongly tempted to ignore it, leave it in the name of your late father and say it isn't mine, not my problem. Don't pay any taxes / fees from your own pocket until you are certain of the position, because by doing so you will likely be stuck with it.

However what I would do is one thing and what I would suggest someone else does is another. The risk is the French government finding you legally liable for the €100 a year and enforcing it against you. How likely it is that they would bother to trace the heirs once it becomes clear that the landowner has died and abandoned it, I don't know.

One option is to view the €100 a year as a form of Inheritance Tax, a price that has to be paid to get the rest of the windfall. But ideally you would still do everything possible to get rid of the land in case it generates other liabilities. E.g. the ruin falls down on the squatter's head and they sue you. By keeping it your heirs will also eventually have the same dilemma.

Norman_Castle

pearl123 wrote: »

The land was offered to the nearby farmer 20 years ago and and advert was later put in a local paper. There has been no upkeep of the land for 60 plus years.
The land now backs onto a major railway line. The squatter is someone who's put a an large shed to store his hay and other equipment. They are somehow managing to use the area.

That suggests its the nearby farmer who is using it otherwise how would they be accessing it. Presumably they don't need ownership if their squatting is unchallenged.

As above, could you just ignore it? If its not registered to you how much effort would a French council put in to trace the owner?

If you're not willing to ignore it could you write to the adjacent properties, specifically the one it is accessed from, offering it to them suggesting that if it is being used you will be charging rent for its use. 20 years is a long time, unchallenged use is likely to continue without though but a fresh offer of ownership might be accepted.

If you can find out who the squatter is leave it to them in your will

pearl123

Norman_Castle wrote: »

That suggests its the nearby farmer who is using it otherwise how would they be accessing it. Presumably they don't need ownership if their squatting is unchallenged.

As above, could you just ignore it? If its not registered to you how much effort would a French council put in to trace the owner?

If you can find out who the squatter is leave it to them in your will.

My mother and I ignored the land issue for a decade, until a red bill arrived requesting back payments and extra charges if we did not pay.
I don't know whether it is a farmer, or just someone with a few horses.

pearl123

In the past, I've spoken briefly via the phone to a English solicitor regarding this land issue. (Not related to probate). They have just suggested I contact a French solicitor.
Clearly, this land issue could make probate more complex, if an up to date estimate of value is needed. Apart, from me gathering info on uk assets first, to save money and time. Is it worth contacting a English solicitor to see what they say?

Norman_Castle

It might be beneficial asking on an ex pat site such as this https://britishexpats.com/forum/france-76/ Its likely there will be someone who has dealt with a similar situation and might be able advise you.