P/T Holiday allowance (28 hours over 5 days but varying shift lengths).

Redpetal

I am looking for advise on what my correct contracted holiday allowance should be as a part time worker ( 28 our week over 5 day but with varying hours work each day). These are my circumstances.


My full time colleague (40/week) get the following allowance in their contract.

24 days leave (to use adhoc through the year)
+ 8 days bank holiday.

They can book leave as a full day 8 hours 9-5 or half-day 4 hours 9-12.30 or 13.30-5 (minus 1 hour lunch).

I work 28 hours/week and get:

20 days leave (to use adhoc through the year)
+ 8 days bank holiday

However, I have recently changed to these hours to fit around school hours so I work the following shifts:

M-T: 9.30-2.30 (5 hours)
Fridays: 9-5 (8 hours).

As I don't work the same hours each days, i.e 1 x 8 hour and 4 x 5 hours days I asked my employer could I please use my 20 days allowance in hours, which according to holiday allowance calculators I should get 157 hours as equivalent with my 28 hour working week. However, my employer has refused this and insists I can have 20 days leave only and only to fit in as per my colleagues either via a half-day or full day. So I have to use a full day whether its a 5 hour shift or an 8 hours shift. If I book a half-day I then have to come in for 1 hour on my 5 hour day!!

This means:

If I choose to use my 20 days for Fridays only ( 8 hours) I would get 160 working hours off/year
If I never book a Friday and only choose to take holiday on a Monday-Thursday, I would be getting only 100 working hours off/year.

So if I decide to book a full day only on my 5 hour days and never a Friday 8 hour, I would then be working 60 hours more than I would if I only book Fridays, does that make sense?

As I mentioned, I could book a half-day, but that would mean I would need to come in for 1 hour on a 5 hour day to make up my hours for that day, which is a nonsense.

I think this would be solved if my employer let me break this down into hours so I can book 5 hours off Monday-Thursday and 8 hours on Friday. I would be very happy with this as I will then get my full allowance. However, they are refusing to do this as they said I need to fit in with the same thing my 40 hours full time employers do. I.e 8 hour full day or 4 hour half-day.

I realise that the holiday allowance is very generous and that they only legally need to give me stat holiday allowance which pro rate would be much less than I get. However, this is in their contract for full and part time, so I feel it is fair I get want they have offered in the contract.

My question is, is the above calculations correct for my hours and contract as per full time equivalent and do I have the legal right to ask them to give me my full allowance in hours. Or can my employer still hold the line and make me take full days for 5 hours working and I end up then getting much less hours off than I would a company who would break it down into hours?.

I hope this makes sense, any advice on this would be much appreciated.


Thank you!

paddedjohn

You should work your holiday out in hours rather than days to simplify it.
20 days plus 8 bank hols is the legal minimum for a full time 5 day a week worker and is 5.6 weeks.
5.6 x 28 = 156.8 hours.
For each day you take off you take the relevant amount of hours off your entitlement

nicechap

Redpetal wrote: »

I am looking for advise on what my correct contracted holiday allowance should be as a part time worker ( 28 our week over 5 day but with varying hours work each day). These are my circumstances.


My full time colleague (40/week) get the following allowance in their contract.

24 days leave (to use adhoc through the year)
+ 8 days bank holiday.

They can book leave as a full day 8 hours 9-5 or half-day 4 hours 9-12.30 or 13.30-5 (minus 1 hour lunch).

I work 28 hours/week and get:

20 days leave (to use adhoc through the year)
+ 8 days bank holiday

However, I have recently changed to these hours to fit around school hours so I work the following shifts:

M-T: 9.30-2.30 (5 hours)
Fridays: 9-5 (8 hours).

As I don't work the same hours each days, i.e 1 x 8 hour and 4 x 5 hours days I asked my employer could I please use my 20 days allowance in hours, which according to holiday allowance calculators I should get 157 hours as equivalent with my 28 hour working week. However, my employer has refused this and insists I can have 20 days leave only and only to fit in as per my colleagues either via a half-day or full day. So I have to use a full day whether its a 5 hour shift or an 8 hours shift. If I book a half-day I then have to come in for 1 hour on my 5 hour day!!

This means:

If I choose to use my 20 days for Fridays only ( 8 hours) I would get 160 working hours off/year
If I never book a Friday and only choose to take holiday on a Monday-Thursday, I would be getting only 100 working hours off/year.

So if I decide to book a full day only on my 5 hour days and never a Friday 8 hour, I would then be working 60 hours more than I would if I only book Fridays, does that make sense?

As I mentioned, I could book a half-day, but that would mean I would need to come in for 1 hour on a 5 hour day to make up my hours for that day, which is a nonsense.

I think this would be solved if my employer let me break this down into hours so I can book 5 hours off Monday-Thursday and 8 hours on Friday. I would be very happy with this as I will then get my full allowance. However, they are refusing to do this as they said I need to fit in with the same thing my 40 hours full time employers do. I.e 8 hour full day or 4 hour half-day.

I realise that the holiday allowance is very generous and that they only legally need to give me stat holiday allowance which pro rate would be much less than I get. However, this is in their contract for full and part time, so I feel it is fair I get want they have offered in the contract.

My question is, is the above calculations correct for my hours and contract as per full time equivalent and do I have the legal right to ask them to give me my full allowance in hours. Or can my employer still hold the line and make me take full days for 5 hours working and I end up then getting much less hours off than I would a company who would break it down into hours?.

I hope this makes sense, any advice on this would be much appreciated.


Thank you!

I agree using hours would be simpler for you and employer as long as you both agree. Otherwise you need to balance up convenience of work fitting around childcare against finding alternative work.

You only get the legal minimum holiday and 4 days less than your colleagues so hardly generous.

One arguement that occurs to me is - do you have to come in on a bank holiday to do 1 and 1/2 hours like you say you do on a non-bank holiday leave day. If not, your employer isn’t being consistent.

Have you thought about asking for the 1 and 1/2 hours as unpaid leave?

I’m not sure your 160 hours calculation is right for taking every Friday off, presumably you have a break in the 8 hours?

Undervalued

paddedjohn wrote: »

You should work your holiday out in hours rather than days to simplify it.
20 days plus 8 bank hols is the legal minimum for a full time 5 day a week worker and is 5.6 weeks.
5.6 x 28 = 156.8 hours.
For each day you take off you take the relevant amount of hours off your entitlement

No, 28 days (5.6 weeks) is the legal entitlement. There is absolutely no entitlement to bank holidays and they are not in any way "special" in employment law.

Whilst 20 bookable days plus the eight bank holidays may be common in some fields it is not universal by any means. Some businesses are busiest on bank holidays and need all their staff working.

Remember too, an employer can totally dictate when the employee can and cannot take their holiday. The entitlement is simply to be able to take the legal minimum at some point during the year at the employer's convenience.

Redpetal

Thanks for your replies.

I should have clarified that our office closes on bank holidays and we have no choice, we have to have these days off.

So
Full time workers on 40 hour contract get 24 days to book when they choose - we are open M-F.
+ 8 days HAVE to be taken on bank holidays when we are closed.
Their 8 hour day includes a 1 hour PAID LUNCH

I get on a 5 day, 28 hour week. .
20 days to be booked whenever I choose M-F.
+ 8 days HAVE to be taken on bank holidays when we are closed.
I get 20 mins on 5 hours and 1 hour paid lunch on 8 hour day.

According to gov for 28 hours worked I should get 157 hours off (or 20 days). My contract is 28 hours with paid lunch breaks, (full time work 40 hours with 1 hour paid lunch each day). Due to this I am now confused as to what happens with lunch breaks as my employer does pay F/T for 40 hours including the lunch break. If have 157 hours to use, can I then book 8 hours off for a full day or 7 hours minus the lunch and 5 for my 5 hour day, or do I have to take off the lunch break in the hours allowed??

I basically just want them to just offer my entitlement in HOURS rather than days but they are refusing to do this. Which means the amount of time I have off, will vary depending on if I book a 5 hour day off or my 8 hour day of and I will end up working more than my colleague pro-rata. I am trying to work out my case to present to management, that I need to have the entitlement in hours rather than days.

Thanks so much.

getmore4less

I realise that the holiday allowance is very generous and that they only legally need to give me stat holiday allowance which pro rate would be much less than I get. However, this is in their contract for full and part time, so I feel it is fair I get want they have offered in the contract

if they give full timers 24+8 BH they have to give you the equivalent prorata they can't give part timers less.

Hours would be sensible but as the employer is not cooperating their current solution does not add up.

Might be worth a looking for other solutions
Could you up your Monday hours to 8 as well and then do 4hr days Tue Wed Thurs, only needing 1/2 days to get them covered.
also maxes the hours for the 8 BH as most fall on Mon and Fri


the relevant legislation is
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/1551/contents/made

it may be they have missunderstood the legislation and that is why they are saying it needs to be that way.

Ask them why they think a 1/2 day for you should be 4hrs when you only work 5 hours to comply with the legislation it should be 2.5hrs.

paddedjohn

Undervalued wrote: »

No, 28 days (5.6 weeks) is the legal entitlement. There is absolutely no entitlement to bank holidays and they are not in any way "special" in employment law.

Whilst 20 bookable days plus the eight bank holidays may be common in some fields it is not universal by any means. Some businesses are busiest on bank holidays and need all their staff working.

Remember too, an employer can totally dictate when the employee can and cannot take their holiday. The entitlement is simply to be able to take the legal minimum at some point during the year at the employer's convenience.

I know exactly what the legal entitlement is, I was referring to to the ops situation as they are given the bank hols off as part of their 28 days.

Blatchford

This seems to be an example of an employer making a great pigs ear out of something that should be simple. The problem though, isn't what holiday the poster should have. It very certainly should be calculated in hours, not days. And the different entitlement between full and part time may not be lawful (it's possible that different entitlement attaches to different grades or some other factor - which happens in many workplaces and is lawful). But the issue isn't either of those things. The poster has asked for the sensible approach. And that has been refused, So the question now is whether the poster is prepared to do anything about that refusal.

Redpetal

Thanks for everyone taking the time to reply to my original post. The last poster is correct in that my choice now is what to do about the companies refusal to offer my allowance in hours.

I plan to send in a formal letter to put forward my case . However, I am trying to get my head around the figures and what my allowance should actually be in DAYS and then HOURS. All the online calculators and figures is to work out the stat holiday allowance, but my work give us more than stat allowance . Can anyone offer advice on what the actually pro rata figures for 28 hours worker should be based on the full time allowance as follows (no the stat allowance)

Full time staff working 40/week, 8 hour days, (with 1 hour paid lunch) and get:
32 days leave (inclusive of bank holidays)
giving them 24 bookable days off (192 hours) + 8 bank holiday days non bookable as office is closed.

On 28 hours my current contract gives me the following ( which is supposedly pro-rata on the above, but I'm not sure this is correct, but its what is in my contract:
28 days leave (inclusive of bank holidays)
giving 20 bookable days off + 8 bank holiday days non bookable as office is closed.

I want to change my current 20 days bookable allowance into hours as I work varying shifts over 5 days.

Is this simply the case that I do 20 x 8 hours: 160 hours bookable hours, or is that too high a figure pro rata to the 192 bookable hours of FT workers.

Maths is not my strong point, but to check, I tried the calculation as a percentage pro-rata on the F/T bookable hours of 192 and I get my hours when working 28/wk to 135 BOOKABLE hours, not 160.

40 hours a week: 24 days x 8 hours= 192 hours BOOKABLE allowance
28 hours a week as a percentage of 40 hours a week is 70%

70% of 192 hours is: 134.4 hours.

In short i just want to work out what is the official pro rata in DAYS and HOURS for a worker doing 28 hours when 40 hours workers get:

Full time staff working 40/week, 8 hour days, (with 1 hour paid lunch) get:
32 days leave (inclusive of bank holidays)
giving 24 bookable days off (192 hours) + 8 bank holiday days non bookable as office is closed.

Thanks!

getmore4less

Start with the Prorata for part timers to get the correct allowance.

How did they get to 20+BH for a 5day part timer when full time get 24+BH.

Redpetal

getmore4less wrote: »

Start with the Prorata for partimers to get the correct allowance.

How did they get to 20+BH when full time get 24+BH.

I'm not sure, I was just told that this was my allowance and accepted it. We are a small company and don't have an official HR dep, so its just one of the managers who worked it out. Looking at it, I think they may have just done the calculation of 28 x 5.6 which is 19.6 days, and then given me 20 days holiday + still kept the bank holidays in addition so I get 28 days off and Ft get 32 days off. Have they calculated this wrong due to bank hols. Also, our allowance is not stat it is better than stat, so not sure HOW to then calculate things as the 5.6 figure is not correct to x by 28 I think??