End of tenancy advice needed

Puna48

Hi!

I've got some questions about end of tenancy:

1) We've been living at the same place for a year now, but after half a year our landlord changed agency, which means our first contract ended with the first agency and then we started a new contract/tenancy with the new agency.

The first agency provided us a check in inventory report. At the end of the first contract, we got all our deposit back (because landlord told the first agency to do so), but there was no one to check the property professionally - only landlord himself came to us and just a had a quick look around the flat.

The second agency never came to do the inventory report, even if it says in the contract, that landlord is responsible for providing a fully comprehensive report at the beginning of the tenancy. And the agency is acting behalf of the landlord.

Does it mean the landlord/agency has breached the contract and they cannot deduct anything from the deposit?

2) Since the landlord breached the contract, does it mean the contract is void, since contract needs to be watched as full, not just partly?

Sorry if that's in the wrong thread, please move it if so.

Thank you in advance.

SpiderLegs

Yes the contract is void and you get to live there for free for as long as you want.
:think:

rosieflowers

You said the deposit was refunded in full at the end of the first contract. Was a new deposit paid or not? If there was a new deposit, who holds it?

MEM62

OP, What are you looking to achieve here? Why are you so keen to have the contract considered breached?

You will have had a check-in report when you took occupation and no doubt another report will be prepared when you leave. There were no other occupants between your contracts so what is your concern?

Puna48

SpiderLegs, that wasn't my question. However, I will move out when I have to and also pay for everything that's my responsibility.

Rosieflowers, yes, I got the full deposit back, but no check out was done (landlord told the company to just pay it back). When the new contract started, the deposit was paid into a new scheme.

MEM62, the check in was done for the first term, with the first agency, which ended. The second agency (totally different one) never did the check in, even tho it says in the contract. Also, the tenancy start date is different than it was on the first check in report. Since I got all the deposit back and the old tenancy ended, then it means that check in report is not valid anymore?

There was some damaged places around the flat when we moved in and I don't want to be responsible for it. Since agency didn't do what the agreement stated, I believe it should be void?

I'm just asking advice from, hopefully, more legally advanced people. No need to excecute me here ��

need_an_answer

The general rule is you should leave the property in the same condition on check out as it was provided to you at check in and evidenced on the inventory...minus wear and tear.

It is incredibly difficult to do an inventory to even a reasonable standard once tenants have moved in let alone to do one midway through a tenancy.

With respect I would expect the LL to use the original inventory and you to be understanding of the reasons why with your furniture in there and you living in the property it would have been very difficult to produce a clear document.
Would you have rather packed up your possessions and moved them into a safe place outside the home whilst an inventory was completed just to "satisfy" your need for one to comply with your understanding...the truthful answer is probably not.

However moving onwards,if you dispute any of the deductions that the new agency propose on behalf of the LL then you do have the right to appeal the decision with the deposit service who hold your current deposit.

You'll need clear evidence so photos are always very good,but essentially you will need to prove that anything damaged was in that same condition at the check in.If your check in inventory shows damaged areas either in the form of photos or clear written text then it is not expected that you should pay to rectify this damage when you leave....you could be charged a proportion if you have added to a damaged area but you would not be expected to rectify it back to brand new.

Is there something in particular that you are looking for advice on regarding a deposit dispute or the potential for one...if so we might be able to advise...otherwise if you don't agree with a proposed deduction follow the correct procedure for disputing it and reclaiming your deposit.

Puna48

Thanks! Good answer.

Technically landlord needs to prove that the damage wasn't there before, though, not me (if I'm wrong then tell me).

Anyway, I don't expect any deductions, I was just curious if the agency breached the contract. In my eyes they still did, since it was their responsibility to provide check in report. Which makes it more interesting, they are not providing me anything when I ask for it..

need_an_answer

Yes you would both be expected to supply evidence if the deposit were to be contested via the arbitration system...the LL would need clear evidence to suggest that for eg an item was undamaged at check in and then damaged at check out.

Puna48

Nice one!

But where do you stand with the breach of contract question? Taken into account that the contract start date is 6 months later than the only check in report, that was done for the first tenancy term, by a totally different agency and the contract clearly says the LL needs to provide report in the beginning of the tenancy.

need_an_answer

My understanding is that you have a contract with the LL to rent the property from them.
The LL has a contract with an agency to provide management services to them for that property.

Its unusual for contracts to change midway through a tenancy but I guess it can happen for a number of reasons.

Essentially your contract with the LL is unchanged.Thats why I believe the check in inventory would still be valid.

The check in inventory isn't a requirement of a tenancy agreement per se its actually a document that protects the LL to some extent against damage to their property.
As a tenant you don't "need " one it just makes things clearer for all parties to the tenancy agreement going forward if there is one.

In your case I don't believe there was a need to produce a new inventory as nothing had substantially changed regarding the property since you took occupation.If the LL came to visit you and looked round he was clearly satisfied that there were no major problems or issues and saw no reason to put you to the disruption of a check out followed by an immediate check in.

Technically I guess he could have had you making the property check out standard...and nobody really wants to be cleaning things to within an inch of their lives when actually they arnt moving out!

Why do you think you have a contract with the agency?
What have you signed that ties you to that agency...either the first one or the second agency?

Puna48

You are correct - I've got a contract with LL, not the agency.

The contract clearly states the start date of the contract and didn't mention the first contract at all. Therefore, the first contract is out of question.

The contract also clearly states, that the LL will be responsible for providing a fully comprehensive inventory check in at the beginning of the term (the term is described at the beginning of this contract).

That said, the inventory is part of our contract, which they didn't follow. In my eyes they breached the contract.