With gas boilers potentially being banned in new homes from 2025, should we look at alternatives now

GreatApe

JKenH wrote: »

I am with Bulb on an E7 tariff at about 15p/9p including VAT? I had a look at the EDF MSE special tariff on line but couldn’t find the bit about weekends being E7. That would appeal to me so if you have a link could you put it up here please.

Thanks

The EDF tariff looks really good
8p all weekend and 9pm to 7am weekdays and 16p at all other times
Not sure what the standing charge is check that it's reasonable

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tariffs#footnote-ev-8p-per-kwh-off-peak-charging-single-rate

JKenH

GreatApe wrote: »

The EDF tariff looks really good
8p all weekend and 9pm to 7am weekdays and 16p at all other times
Not sure what the standing charge is check that it's reasonable

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tariffs#footnote-ev-8p-per-kwh-off-peak-charging-single-rate

Thanks for that. The standing charge for me would be 27p per day (30p in Yorkshire) and the day rate is about 3p more than I pay, with the night rate 1p less. So I would need to to the sums BUT you have to have a smart meter and an electric car. I don’t have an EV at the moment.

GreatApe

JKenH wrote: »

Thanks for that. The standing charge for me would be 27p per day (30p in Yorkshire) and the day rate is about 3p more than I pay, with the night rate 1p less. So I would need to to the sums BUT you have to have a smart meter and an electric car. I don’t have an EV at the moment.

Oh I wasn't aware you had to have an EV to get that tariff

I guess it makes sense as they wouldn't want just anyone to have that tariff As I reckon the average person would save about 25% Vs a normal tariff

michaels

I think discussion of the issues has moved to the news thread but is better here.

GreatApe made a suggestion of using a thermal store for daily heat energy storage, pretty much along the lines of night store heaters but using a large water tank (water seems like a great choice as it is cheap and has a high heat capacity) but volumetrically suggested that using pressurisation to allow a larger temperature range would work rather than simply using a bigger tank.

This does though bring up issues with safety as 500l of 170 degree water sounds dangerous. A heat exchange could be used for actual heating and DHW energy draw off.

What such a system would not do though is integrate nicely with using heat pump to get more efficiency from the energy input. A COP seems like a good way to use electricity, not just because of the efficiency gain but also because it means you need to transmit less kwh than you end up using which is good for the grid and transmission losses. It seems like even with GSHP efficiency drops off markedly over 45 degrees. An ideal storage system would need to in some way square this circle.

Going back to heat pumps. vertical loop GSHP seems to be the gold standard in terms of reliability and COP efficiency but at an uneconomic installation cost. This makes me think about another of GreatApe's suggestions - distributed neighbourhood heating. I lie in a semi. I suspect a shared GSHP heating system would cost not that much more than one just for us so if the incentives were put in place for this, each property could be billed for their usage and installation and maintenance to could be shared then this might be enough to make the economics work. Even better if the system could be shared over 4 or more properties. Problem might be getting everyone to make the leap at the same time as it is the sort of investment you would want to look at when your boiler needed replacing.

However for new builds the economics might make sense from the get go especially if the current grants were tweaked to support a shared system.

Martyn1981

michaels wrote: »

However for new builds the economics might make sense from the get go especially if the current grants were tweaked to support a shared system.

Absolutely, and given that there will be lots of ground works going on, and easy access to the site, it would make sense. Also, combined systems are now easily managed thanks to heat meters (measure temp in and out, and flow rate to calculate kWh's consumed) so fairness can be maintained by billing rather than just hoped for.

My BiL lives in Sweden, and the apartments he has rented, or owned, tend to have a single large boiler which serves all the flats/properties, improving efficiencies and costs.

JKenH

GreatApe wrote: »

The EDF tariff looks really good
8p all weekend and 9pm to 7am weekdays and 16p at all other times
Not sure what the standing charge is check that it's reasonable

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/tariffs#footnote-ev-8p-per-kwh-off-peak-charging-single-rate

Having bought the EV I applied for this tariff but this was EDF’s response.

We’ve checked the details of your electricity meter and I’m sorry to inform you that it’s not compatible with our two-rate GoElectric tariff. This is because we would need to install a smart meter to accurately measure your usage during the unique off peak hours of the tariff. However, there is currently no smart meter signal in your area, so it would not work correctly if we were to install it at your property.

We know this is disappointing, so we’ve developed and recently launched a single-rate version of the tariff exclusively for customers in your situation, which will work with the meter you have installed. Although it does not offer an off-peak rate, the unit price that applies all day is designed to be extremely competitive, which provides a very similar overall bill price to that of the two-rate version (based on an assumed usage split of 60% off-peak & 40% peak). The prices are also fixed until January 2021.

Fuel: Electricity
Tariff Name: GoElectric Jan21 Single Rate
Fixed Until: 31/01/2021
Daily Standing Charge: 30.01p per day
Unit Rate: 11.59p per kWh
Exit Fee: £ 30


I need to work through the figures but my initial impression is this won’t work so well for me but it might for others who don’t charge their car at home and have high daytime usage.

EricMears

JKenH wrote: »

Although it does not offer an off-peak rate, the unit price that applies all day is designed to be extremely competitive, which provides a very similar overall bill price to that of the two-rate version (based on an assumed usage split of 60% off-peak & 40% peak).

No signal for smart meters ? I thought they worked off a SIM card that could join any network within range and surely there can't be many places with no signal on any mobile network ! But even if they're telling the truth, why can't they offer a conventional E7 tariff ?

I know electricity prices vary according to which part of the country you're in but I'd have thought N. Lincs would be pretty similar to NE Derbys. FWIW, my Bulb E7 rates are Day 15.38 Night 8.2 and 60% N + 40% D works out at 11.08 ppu. I suppose 11.59 ppu could (very) loosely be described as 'similar' to that (assuming that their prices are inclusive of vat as mine are) but the EDF DSC @30.01 ppd seems outrageous; Bulb's is only 20.44ppd.

MoneyMate

Our smart meter from E.ON works purely on Vodafone, would be interested if anyone else can back this up and what other suppliers use.
Fitted Aug this year.

JKenH

EricMears wrote: »

No signal for smart meters ? I thought they worked off a SIM card that could join any network within range and surely there can't be many places with no signal on any mobile network ! But even if they're telling the truth, why can't they offer a conventional E7 tariff ?

We do have an intermittent signal on Vodafone but no other network. It can take hours to get a signal to send a text.

EricMears wrote: »

I know electricity prices vary according to which part of the country you're in but I'd have thought N. Lincs would be pretty similar to NE Derbys. FWIW, my Bulb E7 rates are Day 15.38 Night 8.2 and 60% N + 40% D works out at 11.08 ppu. I suppose 11.59 ppu could (very) loosely be described as 'similar' to that (assuming that their prices are inclusive of vat as mine are) but the EDF DSC @30.01 ppd seems outrageous; Bulb's is only 20.44ppd.

I’m currently with Bulb, 15.24 day and 8.65 night with same standing charge. EDF EV rates would for me, if available, be 16.94 day and 8.00 night inclusive of VAT. The attraction of the deal is that the night rate applies from 9pm to 7am and all day at weekends so 98 hours on night rates and 70 hours on day rates.

zeupater

?? Bot or Spammer building history Alert !!!! ..... :exclamati:exclamati:exclamati:exclamati:exclamati