Lamorna Cove ticket for legally parking in private space

goodneighbour

I received a parking Charge Notice from Premier Park regarding the parking of my car in Lamorna Cove car park on August 10th 2019. My partner was the driver and he parked legally in the leased space of his employer who is a resident of Lamorna Cove. First I recieved the PCN then as we had not found this site we wrote back explaining the situation and giving the drivers name.
My partner then received a fresh PCN and he appealed. This was refused.
The leaseholder of the parking space who is also my partner’s employer, wrote to Premier Park to question the ticket. He also wrote to the landowners Mr Roy Stevenson and his daughter, who also are the people who r ceive the payment for the lease of the parking space.
He had a reply which didn’t admit fault but which agreed to cancel the ticket.
Since then the ticket is still in force, the landowners have not replied to numerous emails both from my partner and his employer and we seem to have no choice but to continue with the POPLA appeal.
1/Should we appeal to popla?
We have tried to speak directly with the landowners but they are never there.
We have written to our MP with copies of all evidence.
We have put in a Subject Access Request to Premier Park.

2/ Is there anything else we should be aware of or doing? My partner is unwilling to do the POPLA appeal as he thinks it is another waste of time. Am I right to insist?

3/ if we put the appeal here will someone cast an eye over it?

Thank you for such brilliant information albeit overwhelming. I have spent about two weeks reading posts here and yet still feel worried and stressed about going to court.

Catherine

The_Deep

Read this

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

Was this agreement in writing? If so, the PPC can whistle Dixie.

I note that you have complained to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

goodneighbour

Thank you for your reply. Yes I had read the posts about private parking spaces.
The resident who leases the space has a written agreement and pays around £1000 pounds a year for the space! He has holiday guests who park there as well as himself when he is around. Also my partner his gardener and the cleaner. So he cares a lot about people getting tickets for using it.

However,we are still left to deal with the ticket.

Can anyone advise us about POPLA? I know we have a clear right to have parked in the space but we don't have proof that we parked there. Would this be a problem in a court case. Obviously we don't normally take photos of our car every time we park it.

The car park has cameras taking photos of every car who enters and leaves. Apparently it also has a camera that notes all cars that park in the private space. However we know there have been slip-ups before.

We had no idea there was CCTV in the carpark although I imagine the small print says so. In the past they were infamous for clamping people.

Redx

I doubt that the car park uses CCTV , I think you made that up myself

these car parks use ANPR cameras for parking enforcement so more likely to be those

POPLA is covered in post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread near the top of this forum

if you fail to use POPLA , and PP take it to court within 6 years , how will you answer the judge when he asks why POPLA wasnt used to try to avoid a court case ?

foolish to not try POPLA and its a fool that doesnt do so

get a WS from the leaseholder and add a copy to the popla appeal , stating that the vehicle is authorised to park in the peivate space

goodneighbour

Thanks - I now know the difference between CCTV and ANPR!

Yes we have WS from the leaseholder who unfortunately lives in Canada but will be back soon.

Persuaded driver to do Popla but he wants to do the form so we are filling it in. I prepared a few arguments from threads I have read here and am trying to fit them into the boxes.

I hope we can save the draft and I can come back here with a document of our main arguments in case there is anything we are missing. Or getting wrong )

Coupon-mad

Persuaded driver to do Popla but he wants to do the form so we are filling it in.

Nono and more no. STOP. Just do NOT do it by post. NO.

goodneighbour

This is the main information we used in the Popla appeal. It is from the online form. The additional information is the more formal part. Not sure what evidence to use to back up claims there.

Thank you

/Users/kate/Desktop/POPLA Appeal.pdf

goodneighbour

Why is it important to do it by post? We can still do that.

Coupon-mad

I said do NOT do a POPLA appeal by post.

No forms.

No ticking all the boxes.

No trying to handwrite stuff to fit into the little box provided.

No posting it and POPLA then losing it, or at best, slow slowing down the entire exchange process where you get to see the other side's evidence. There is no way you want to do that by post and receive a brick-sized envelope of about 50 sheets of paper to look through in 6 days flat, then comment on BY POST again...

Awful idea!

Online is so easy, and you just tick OTHER and attach your PDF, then you get the evidence electronically as well, and can comment on it that way and track progress of the case.

goodneighbour

Thank you! Sorry for confusion. We've been doing this for hours now.

So we will continue with the Popla form. And tick Other for any extra info.
I also see that I can't attach a file so am going to copy and paste the body of our argument here below.

A short summary of the grounds of appeal

On the 10th of August 2019 I drove the vehicle GC16 FDZ into Lamorna Cove car park. Arriving at 10:53 and leaving at 13:08.
I parked the vehicle in the private space reserved for The Magazine. This space is leased from the landowner by Mr. Steve Grainger owner of The Magazine. I work as gardener for Mr. Grainger and I have his permission to park there as his employee while I'm working in his garden. I attach a letter from him confirming this.

The operators signs cannot override the existing rights covered by the terms of the lease.

I attach photographs of the parking space where the vehicle was parked.

The vehicle images contained in the PCN show my arrival and departure time, but it does not specify where the car was parked. Paragraph 9 (2)(a) of PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 requires the PCN to "Specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates”

Why I believe I could park where I did
The space where I parked (as I have done on numerous past occasions) is leased from the landowner Mr. Stevenson by Mr. Grainger owner of The Magazine. I work as gardener for Mr. Grainger and I have his permission to park there as his employee while I'm working in his garden. I attach a letter from him confirming this.

You will note from the photographs that the parking bay is not clearly defined on both sides of the boundary, but the sign clearly shows it is the private space for users of The Magazine

Evidence to show that I parked in an area in which I was free to park?

- Confirmation from Mr Grainger of permission to park in Magazine space
Image of The Magazine parking space with signage

What did the signage at the car park say?
Private. No Parking. Magazine Residence only

Why do you consider you complied with the signage?
Because I have permission from the owner of The Magazine to park in his space and he - Mr Grainger pays an annual fee for the leasehold of this space.

Why does the parking operator consider you to have failed to comply with the signage?
The parking operator refused my appeal on the grounds that there was no evidence that the driver of GC16 FDZ drove down "to park by the cottages". But the parking space for The Magazine does not require you to drive to the cottages. This private parking space is within the car park area.

Can you provide any evidence to support your claim that you complied with the signage at the car park

- Image of Lamorna Cove car park showing poor delineation of parking bay

Can you upload any evidence to support your position?

Image of a car parked in The Magazine space nearby the cottages







Additional information

Please explain your reasons for appealing against the parking ticket.

1/ It is admitted that on August 10th 2019 the Defendant´s vehicle GC16 FDZ was parked at Lamorna Cove.

2/ It is denied that the Defendant was in breach of any parking conditions as permission to park in a leased parking area had been granted by the current owner and occupier of The Magazine, Lamorna Cove, Mr Steven Grainger. This contract permits the parking of vehicles in an area marked by a sign. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms.

3/ The use of ANPR in a private car park is regulated by the BPS´s Code of Practice and this PCN was incorrectly issued because no evidence of Location of Parking was specified on the PCN.

4/ The PCN in question contains two images of the vehicle entering and exiting the car park. The time and date stamp have been added above but are not part of the images. The vehicle in question could have been captured by APRN at any time or on any date. As a result these images cannot be used as confirmation of the incident and the Premier Park Ltd claim was unauthorised.

5/ I believe that the ANPR system was neither reliable nor accurate on the day in question. Otherwise it would have captured the vehicle GC16 FDZ parked in the private Magazine space. The British Parking Association does not audit the ANPR systems in use by parking operators and the BPA has no way to ensure that the systems are in good working order or that the data collected is accurate. For example another driver was wrongly issued a PCN on the same day in the Magazine space and apparently the landlord´s daughter Sally Stevenson who manages the car park also on one occasion received a PCN from Premier Park.

Independent research has not found that the technology is ´generally accurate´ or proportionate, or reliable at all, and this is one of the reasons why Councils are banned from using it in car parks.

Coupon-mad

So we will continue with the Popla form.

You mean online, yes. But not until you have finalised the PDF you will be attaching. No typing stuff in boxes or trying to copy & paste, as the online boxes are too small.

Why are you answering all these questions I said not to answer?

What did the signage at the car park say?

Why do you consider you complied with the signage?

etc.etc.

No.

This is not how to do a POPLA appeal, and how to do it is explained already in the NEWBIES thread post #3.

You have 30+ days to use the code so have another look at the weekend and stop trying to answer all those POPLA questions which show me that you have not just ticked 'OTHER'. The section called OTHER does not ask those daft questions.