The Great Big Green Discussion Thread

Cardew

mmmmikey wrote: »

Is her presentation balanced? No of course not. But that's not what's she's trying to do.

To be fair she does acknowledge that she suffers from obsessive-compulsive disorder(OCD) and environmental issues often attract those with a less than balanced view.

GreatApe

pile-o-stone wrote: »

Easy to knock others who get off their backsides and actually try to make a difference. One wonders what the world would be like if we all just sat back and did nothing to try and improve things. No doubt we'd still be living on the African Plain.

There are those who do
And those who moan for others to do it for them
The first tend to be the conservative right the second the lefties

I used to think the moaners had no place whatsoever that their moaning was narcissism and a total waste of time. But I'm a bit less critical these days because I realise when the lefties moan like babies those who make do and create roll up their sleeves and start to address the problem

So while I still think those who do are better than those who just moan
I see some value in protesting and moaning not a lot but some...

Solarchaser

Talked about the uneducated right, and then quoted the sun to prove what the uneducated right looks like.

Reminds me of those brexit supporters who hark back to the beaches of Normandy, even though they have never even been there, never mind fought on them.

A very well made point indeed!
Infact mr trump would describe it as "Perfect"

Martyn1981

JKenH wrote: »

Some might say that was a good thing ... unless you got eaten by a lion. So man tamed fire to keep himself safe. That led to burning wood, then coal, then oil and look where we have ended up. Safe, warm well fed and with a standard of living the working man could never have imagined 100 years ago. I think it is generally called progress. Just at what precise point did we start stealing our children’s future and why didn’t we stop?

Because we preferred it to what went before.

Of course the young don’t realise this. They don’t see the benefits that have accrued and given them their cosy homes and their parents the 4x4s to transport them to school. They’ve never had to go to work as children in the factories and the mines - or survive all the deadly childhood diseases that took such a heavy toll.

At which particular point in history does miss Thunberg think we should have halted progress and given up fossil fuels?

What can a 16 year old contribute to solving problem that the IPCC and world leaders have been struggling for decades to resolve? One thing and one thing only- hysteria.

I totally agree that we have to sort this mess out but the blame game is not the answer. What Miss T is doing is not promoting peace and harmony in the world - simply more discord and condemning a generation of children to fear the world will end before they grow up.

While the liberal left adore her attack on capitalist values she alienates a lot of people with her holier than thou attitude. I know it is fashionable to dismiss the views of what the metropolitan elite left regard as the uneducated populist right wing but those views exist here in the UK and the US and elsewhere in the world.

Not everyone sees Ms T as the saint that the left wing media promote.

The Sun mocked her:

How dare we? No. How dare you sail to America on a carbon fibre yacht that you didn’t build which cost £15million, that you didn’t earn, and which has a back-up diesel engine that you didn’t mention.

I’m sorry Ms Thunberg, but if you’re going to lay into my generation, you must accept it when I lay into you and yours.

What about the pills you take when you have a headache?

What about the clean water that comes out of your tap? What about the food you can buy at any time of the day and night?

No 16-year-old was responsible for any of that.

What about the aid missions currently being run in some of the poorest countries of the world, or the drugs that help keep Aids at bay?

Think about all the movies you’ve enjoyed. Movies made by grown-ups. And all those comedians who’ve made you laugh.

How dare you sail to America on a carbon fibre yacht that you didn’t build which cost £15million, that you didn’t earn, and which has a back-up diesel engine that you didn’t mention.

And then pause for a moment to consider how soundly you sleep at night, knowing that adults are building and servicing and flying Sweden’s fighter planes. To keep you safe.

We gave you mobile phones and laptops and the internet. We created the social media you use every day and we run the banks that pay for it all.

So how dare you stand there and lecture us, you spoilt brat.

Such a silly and already tired argument.

If in doubt, just spin the whole argument into something else entirely "squirrel" and hope the hard right can't follow the truth.

So, what do the benefits that FF's have brought us, have to do with the argument for more (or less) action on AGW ..... NOTHING!

By trying to label those that support RE and action to mitigate the climate crisis as somehow 'hating' FF's, those doing so, simply reveal themselves, and the shallow'ness of their argument.

So, what's the reality? FF's have raised our technology and standard of living levels massively, and brought numerous benefits to most.

But, we then realised that the cost of FF's was far higher than we'd thought. Anyone's fault, no, FF's fault, no.

And putting aside the simply unforgiveable actions of the vested interest industries in lying about the issue, simply for monetary gain, nobody is actually at fault for there being a problem.

The fault lies simply with inaction, or too little action going forward.

The greatest gift that FF's have given us, is a high enough technological level to no longer need FF's. We don't need to hate them, we don't need to kill them off, but we can thank them for their service and allow them to enjoy a peaceful retirement.

So the - 'you don't appreciate what FF's have done for us' argument is nothing more than a giant spinning squirrel, used by those that would rather argue than act.

What do the 'yuff' like Greta see, they see a problem, that is already huge, and getting bigger every day. They also see solutions, solutions that exist, and exist economically today, and they ask themselves - 'why on earth are we delaying, stalling, dragging our heels, debating, or listening to the Mango-in-Chief, when all we have to do is act?'

And what is the answer that they get from, let's face it, a group I belong to, old white men - "you just don't appreciate what you have!"


And as for "At which particular point in history does miss Thunberg think we should have halted progress and given up fossil fuels?", that must be the daftest thing I've read on here in years. Burning FF's is not progress, we've been doing it for 100's of years, progress would be to not burn FF's, and we've had that potential now for decades ............ but the giant spinning squirrels have been busy distracting and misleading us ...... but not apparently 'the yuff'.

1961Nick

GT did say something like "You've stolen my childhood" in reference to global warming. This is nonsense as I'm sure she's had a very comfortable childhood. If any of it has been stolen, it's probably due to her parents filling her head with stuff that she shouldn't have to worry about at such a tender age.

Hexane

1961Nick wrote: »

it's probably due to her parents filling her head with stuff that she shouldn't have to worry about at such a tender age.

Apparently it may be the other way round. It was Greta that persuaded her parents to become vegan, not them that persuaded her.

Martyn1981

1961Nick wrote: »

GT did say something like "You've stolen my childhood" in reference to global warming. This is nonsense as I'm sure she's had a very comfortable childhood. If any of it has been stolen, it's probably due to her parents filling her head with stuff that she shouldn't have to worry about at such a tender age.

Nope, you seem to have missed the point entirely. Her childhood has been stolen because she is spending it fighting for something that everyone and their aunt can see is necessary, and beneficial, unless you make a living from FF's, or your political career depends on FF campaign contributions.

Da yuff shouldn't be the ones driving this, we shouldn't need XR on the streets, we should have acted sooner - done what was right, already have reduced FF emissions considerably, already have a far greater roll out of RE capacity, already have cleaner (not yet clean) air, and be on top of the problem, not desperately behind the curve, as we now are, and will remain - remember AGW can't be solved, the climate crisis can't be prevented, what we are doing now is trying to mitigate the impacts as much as possible.

We've already lost, the only question that remains is how big we are going to lose. And we won't be around to see the worst of it, that's something we have gifted to Greta and her generation, and their children.

EricMears

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Nope, you seem to have missed the point entirely. Her childhood has been stolen because she is spending it fighting for something that everyone and their aunt can see is necessary, and beneficial, unless you make a living from FF's, or your political career depends on FF campaign contributions.

Perhaps instead of saying "you have stolen my childhood" she should have said "I have wasted my childhood". Many other children have managed to use their childhood.

pile-o-stone

JKenH wrote: »

Some might say that was a good thing ... unless you got eaten by a lion. So man tamed fire to keep himself safe. That led to burning wood, then coal, then oil and look where we have ended up. Safe, warm well fed and with a standard of living the working man could never have imagined 100 years ago. I think it is generally called progress. Just at what precise point did we start stealing our children’s future and why didn’t we stop?

<snip>
...vile attack on young people and one young person in particular
</snip>

I assume you therefore think that everything is perfect in the world and we should continue on as is, and indeed perhaps spread more of the 'fossil fuel good times' to all of the underdeveloped parts of the world because there is no downside to that?

It begs the question why on earth you're on a green and ethical part of the MSE board? I can only conclude that it's because you're here to troll? Why else do you come here? Honest question.

mmmmikey

After a silly few months we've been just about managing to de-personalise this board again whilst maintaining robust exchanges of views.


Lets all try and keep it that way