Intrum are taking me to court and I could do with help breaking this down

Mikeyg123

Hi all,

Intrum UK Finance has made a claim against me for an unpaid credit card debt originally took out with Lloyds bank.

I responded stating that the debt was statute barred, but they have responded with proof that it is not. I made the mistake thinking it was barred because Intrum changed their name from 1st Credit Finance at the start of 2018 and had no record of any correspondence from with Intrum up until now.

I have since sent a CCA request, and request notice of assignment and default notice and a few weeks back I received a letter from Intrum stating that they do not hold any copies of the assignment document.!

In the meantime, Intrum sent me a questionnaire asking me about the debt. Questions included 'are you aware that you owe the debt'. I answered truthfully to all questions without giving much detail.

Now last week I received a 'general form of judgement or order'. I do not have a clue what this is so please can someone advise?

'On the letter it states that it is ordered that:

The stay is lifted!

The claimant must file and serve amended particulars! containing a concise statement of the facts which the claimant relies upon.

Where the claim is based uban a written agreement:

A) a copy of the contract or agreement!
any general conditions

The defendant has permission to file and serve an amended defence by 14 days thereafter.'!

I'm really struggling to comprehend all of this. I wiuld really appreciate it if someone could break it down for me.

Must I pay to file a new defence?

Is it too late or is there anything I should do/try to do to avoid going to court?

WhenIam64

The claimant must file and serve amended particulars! containing a concise statement of the facts which the claimant relies upon.

I have since sent a CCA request, and request notice of assignment and default notice and a few weeks back I received a letter from Intrum stating that they do not hold any copies of the assignment document.!

The issue here for you is to keep within the SCC system and not miss any instruction from the court. Courts/Judges are not stupid. They have laid down a challenge for Intrum to come up with the paperwork to show they have standing or else the claim fails. If you provided the letter that said they don't have the paperwork, then that is what has caused the issue.

Your answer to the questionnaire could be an issue in that it admits perhaps within the 6 years, that there is a debt. But it will depend on their paperwork.

As regards a defence, you can only supply a defence (at no cost) IF you get new particulars from them. If you do, then come back here and we can go through them. Nothing to do until you get the new particulars OR something from the court.

Court paperwork can be confusing even though it is perfectly logical. They rely on people making mistakes / not replying to get default CCJs. I'm going to forecast, this one will end up in the bin BUT come back if you are unsure.

sourcrates

Good advice from WIAM64 above, any further help needed, come back to this thread.

fatbelly

It sounds like the court is not convinced that Intrum can evidence that the debt is valid. Hence they have been ordered to 'file and serve', i.e. send the proof to you and the court. If they do that then you have 14 days to amend your defence.

You do not need to pay anything

If Intrum have already put in writing that 'they do not hold any copies of the assignment document' that may well be fatal to their claim.

Bear in mind that there is help on

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues/received-a-court-claim?105-Received-a-Court-Claim=

Mikeyg123

Hi all,

Thanks very much for your responses so far.

I have received new particulars from the claimant today. Along with this, there were four separate documents.

Annex 1 - A photocopy of the page a signed when I took out the credit agreement (dated 6/2/09)
Annex 2 - Photocopies of Lloyds TSB credit card statements. Not every statement is present but most are.
Annex 3 - A photocopy of a letter sent to me (dated 12/12/2014) notifying me that Lloyds has assigned the debt to 1st credit (finance) limited. There is also a photocopy of a letter from 1st credit notifying me that Lloyds has assigned the debt to them.
Annex 4 - A copy of the direct debit agreement (dated 25/02/2016) between my bank and 1st credit along with a statement of account showing several (four) payments I made.
Annex 5 - A copy of the certificate of incorporation on change of name

I'm assuming I have 14 days from today to file a new defense. Is this correct?

I'm still struggling to comprehend all of this so I would really appreciate it if someone could break it down for me and let me know what my next steps should be.

Is it too late or is there anything I should do/try to do to avoid going to court?

WhenIam64

I'm assuming I have 14 days from today to file a new defense. Is this correct?

That is correct. If in looking through the paperwork, you think they are totally correct then you'd best make an offer.

If there are errors, mistakes, padding and charges you've never agreed to (which is very common) then you can put in one of two defences

a) You do not owe them any money because of, for example, there was no lawful assignment (always a good one as they don't always do it properly - Annex 3) or
b) You do owe something but you dispute items "a, b, c etc" and you wish the court to determine the amount.

The advantage of a full admission is that you do not need to go to court though you may be paying over the odds.

The advantage of challenging the claim is that you may end up paying nothing (called litigation risk) or less than you would have by making a full admission. The disadvantage is you may end up paying costs.

Before you chose you need to be aware that if this is a fast-track/multi-track claim i.e. over £10,000 there are significant court costs. If it is small claims track, costs are limited to a few hundred pounds.

It all turns on the facts that you have and we don't have. For example, the 2016 payments that appear to contradict your "statute barred" argument.

Mikeyg123

Hi,

Thanks for the response.

How do I go about making an offer? Would I include this in my defence? The paperwork looks correct, the notice of assignment was sent by both Lloyds and 1st Credit on the same day - 21 days after my account was sold/purchased.

I have not received a copy of the default notice, and I do not recall ever getting a notice about the 1st Credits name change.

Regarding my statute-barred argument, I mentioned in my first post and just to clarfiy I made the mistake thinking it was barred because Intrum changed their name from 1st Credit Finance at the start of 2018 and had no record of any correspondence from with Intrum up until recently. I have not made a payment to Intrum in the last six years but have 1st Credit Finance.

Any info on what next steps I should take would be greatly appreciated.

WhenIam64

There are different approaches to this such as

1. A claim is a way of getting your attention. Call Intrum up and see what they will accept as a F&F

2. If the amount they want is too much, then put in an admission to the base amount (if true) and argue that the additional charges fall outside the agreement which itself may be unlawful and you wish the court to determine the amounts

3. It takes about 4 - 5 months from a defence to a court hearing and you can use this time to contact Intrum again to see if there is different F&F amount as they will now need to pay someone to do the paperwork and present in court.

4. If there is still no agreement and it goes to court (you don't need to go but it helps your case if you do) then the court writes and tells you what you owe - a judgement

5. Within 1 month of the judgement you can either pay it all off (having saved from 4-5 months) or you ask for a Redetermination so the judge/court officer decides what you can afford based on your Income/Expenditure.

All of the above assumes a small claim track as you have not indicated the amount they are asking for. It also assumes you can hit the hit to your credit record and a CCJ will not be a breach of the terms of your job now and any you want to take up in the future.

There will be others who may have their favoured approach or you can get other ideas over on Legal Beagles.

Mikeyg123

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

Regarding the general form of judgement, I'm confused as to what date I need to respond by. Is it 14 days after the date I received the particulars (26th sept), or 14 days after the date outlined by the court in the general judgement by which the particulars should be recieved by (4th Oct)?

To clarify the credit card was for £1500 and they are seeking around £70 in interest too.

I just got off the phone to Intrum - as I definitely do not want a CCJ and want to avoid this at all costs.

They said they can offer a Tomlin order for the full amount, but I was hoping to make a payment today to conclude the matter.

I explained that to them and they said if they were to go court they would claim money for the solicitors used so far which will take the total amount owed to £2000+. They then went on to say they can accept £1300. I counter offered and said I can pay £200 which they declined. They also stated they would not go any lower.

How far can I push this? What is the best solution for me given that I want to avoid a CCJ? What should my next steps be?

If we come to an agreement must I still file a defence?

WhenIam64

Is it 14 days after the date I received the particulars (26th sept),

Its 14 days plus 5 for posting so plenty of time. Tomlin Order has the effect of keeping a CCJ at bay unless you breach the agreement

I explained that to them and they said if they were to go court they would claim money for the solicitors used so far which will take the total amount owed to £2000+

Nonsense as costs are limited.

sourcrates

I think £200 was a bit low ball myself, they will have an amount in mind they may be willing to take, but they likley wont tell you what that is.