Question about backdating and being unfit for work on UC

invisibility

Hi all

I know very little about being unfit for work on UC so am seeking advice.


Im claiming UC, have been for about a month on the normal basic rate. As soon as I claimed I handed in my sick note which is for 6 months to start with.

My question is once I've filled in the health assessment report I've just received and eventually get declared unfit for work (have cancer am having chemo) I believe that I get an extra payment on top - when does this get back dated to? Does it get back dated to when I handed in the sick note or another random date I'm not sure of?

They've really messed me around with this, I sent and filled in the form weeks ago and just received a new one in the post, rang up and no one is giving me a proper explanation apart from my referral was done at the wrong time so they had to do a new one a couple of days ago. This is why I'm asking because it's only down to DWP error that they haven't got a form they will use yet so I just hope the backdating doesn't go off the form. I'd probs have a case to complain if it did but I have such little energy and feel constantly sick I really can't be bothered dealing with them if I can get away with it.

calcotti

You will be eligible for the additional LCWRA element (£336.20/month) from your fourth assessment period assuming you submitted your Fit Note at the start of your claim. If not it is from the fourth assessment period after you first submitted the Fit Note.

You shouldn't have to have a face to face assessment if you are having chemotherapy - you just need to have made sure the back page of the UC50 form was completed by one of your medical team conforming your treatment.

I don't know what they mean by your referral was done at the wrong time.

Punmanuk

Just to add, I had a similar situation, had my assessment with no notice. Just got a call at 3pm the day before saying that I need to attend next day at 9:30 to an assessment centre..
10 min after I finished, they put a message in my journal saying I got the award..
5 days later I was payed pack dated pay from my 1st sick note.. Received a note in my journal and then I check my account and was in.
I know everyone situation is different but this is what happened with me.. Just sharing my experience

invisibility

calcotti wrote: »

You will be eligible for the additional LCWRA element (£336.20/month) from your fourth assessment period assuming you submitted your Fit Note at the start of your claim. If not it is from the fourth assessment period after you first submitted the Fit Note.

You shouldn't have to have a face to face assessment if you are having chemotherapy - you just need to have made sure the back page of the UC50 form was completed by one of your medical team conforming your treatment.

I don't know what they mean by your referral was done at the wrong time.

Thanks you've answered my question about the fit note, that's all I wanted to know.

Regarding the referral, I don't understand it properly either it's just what they told me on the phone - when I rang up they said that the job coach I handed my fit note to 3 weeks earlier didn't refer me for a health assessment or to get the form which is why I was waiting so long. I just don't think she marked on that I'd handed in a fit note.

Punmanuk wrote: »

Just to add, I had a similar situation, had my assessment with no notice. Just got a call at 3pm the day before saying that I need to attend next day at 9:30 to an assessment centre..
10 min after I finished, they put a message in my journal saying I got the award..
5 days later I was payed pack dated pay from my 1st sick note.. Received a note in my journal and then I check my account and was in.
I know everyone situation is different but this is what happened with me.. Just sharing my experience

Thanks that's interesting to hear your experience and clears up what I wanted to know about the fit note.

poppy12345

Punmanuk wrote: »

Just to add, I had a similar situation, had my assessment with no notice. Just got a call at 3pm the day before saying that I need to attend next day at 9:30 to an assessment centre..
10 min after I finished, they put a message in my journal saying I got the award..
5 days later I was payed pack dated pay from my 1st sick note.. Received a note in my journal and then I check my account and was in.
I know everyone situation is different but this is what happened with me.. Just sharing my experience

Your situation is rather unique and this doesn't usually happen, as advised many times to you on different threads, LCWRA is only usually paid from when the fit note was handed in, in certain circumstances and your situation wasn't one of them.



Others shouldn't expect to receive this element from when they sent in their first fit note because there's a 3 month waiting period.

Punmanuk

Yes poppy, that is why I made it clear everyone situation is different and this is my experience and I am just sharing what happened with me

invisibility

poppy12345 wrote: »

Your situation is rather unique and this doesn't usually happen, as advised many times to you on different threads, LCWRA is only usually paid from when the fit note was handed in, in certain circumstances and your situation wasn't one of them.



Others shouldn't expect to receive this element from when they sent in their first fit note because there's a 3 month waiting period.

Thanks for clarifying. Can I confirm - you receive the first LCWRA payment after the 3 month waiting period and this payment is backdated to when you first handed in the fit note?

poppy12345

invisibility wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying. Can I confirm - you receive the first LCWRA payment after the 3 month waiting period and this payment is backdated to when you first handed in the fit note?

You receive the first payment in your 4th complete assessment period starting from when you send in your first fit note.


It's only backdated if the decision took longer than this, if it didn't take this long then there's nothing to backdate.

calcotti

invisibility wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying. Can I confirm - you receive the first LCWRA payment after the 3 month waiting period and this payment is backdated to when you first handed in the fit note?

Except in exceptional circumstances the payment is not backdated to the date Fit Note was handed in. Normally the three month waiting period starts from the date of handing in Fit Note. The LCWRA element is included in the first assessment period starting after the expiry of the waiting period.

Spoonie_Turtle

calcotti wrote: »

Except in exceptional circumstances the payment is not backdated to the date Fit Note was handed in. Normally the three month waiting period starts from the date of handing in Fit Note. The LCWRA element is included in the first assessment period starting after the expiry of the waiting period.

Can I clarify something please? When you say 'hand in a fit note' does notifying them online of the dates count? Or is it solely based on when they recieved the actual piece of paper?
(Don't want to derail this thread but I notified them in my application, as I'm sure many of us have done. I had to post the note to them once I'd confirmed which Jobcentre it was.)

calcotti

Spoonie_Turtle wrote: »

Can I clarify something please? When you say 'hand in a fit note' does notifying them online of the dates count? Or is it solely based on when they recieved the actual piece of paper?
(Don't want to derail this thread but I notified them in my application, as I'm sure many of us have done. I had to post the note to them once I'd confirmed which Jobcentre it was.)

The Regulations refer to the date the claimant applies to have LCW or LCWRA included.

The Universal Credit Regulations 2013

Period for which the LCW or LCWRA element is not to be included

28.—(1) An award of universal credit is not to include the LCW or LCWRA element until the beginning of the assessment period that follows the assessment period in which the relevant period ends.

(2) The relevant period is the period of three months beginning with—
(a)if regulation 41(2) applies (claimant with weekly earnings equal to or above the relevant threshold) the date on which the award of universal credit commences or, if later, the date on which the claimant applies for the LCW or LCWRA element to be included in the award; or

(b)in any other case, the first day on which the claimant provides evidence of their having limited capability for work in accordance with the Medical Evidence Regulations.

The above regulation states explicitly that if you initial claim includes information that you are unwell the waiting period starts from the start of your claim. For other situations Advice to Decision Makers advises that the regulation is to be interpreted as the date you first tell them.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/661568/admf5.pdf

F5031 The relevant period is three months beginning
...
2....on the first day on which the claimant provides medical
evidence of LCW.

Example 1
Dom is entitled to UC. His assessment period begins on the 5th of every month. Dom contacts the Department on 17.11.15 to say that he is unwell due to mental health problems. He sends in a doctor’s statement signed on 2.12.15 which states that Dom is not fit for work due to anxiety and depression. Dom is referred for assessment, and is found to have LCWRA.
The relevant period begins on 17.11.15, the date he first gave evidence of LCW, and ends on 16.2.16. The LCWRA element is included in Dom’s UC award from 5.3.16.

The Social Security (Medical Evidence) Regulations 1976 referred to in the UC regs say

Evidence of incapacity for work and confinement

2.—(1) Where a person claims any benefit and his entitlement to that benefit depends on his being incapable of work in respect of the day or days to which his claim relates, he shall furnish evidence of such incapacity in respect of that day or those days either by means of a certificate in the form of a statement in writing given by a doctor in accordance with the rules set out in Part I of Schedule 1 to these regulations on the form set out in Part II of that Schedule or by such other means as may be sufficient in the circumstances of any particular case.

Obviously if you tell them and don't then provide evidence then your notification would not be taken into account. Interesting to note the phrase "or by such other means as may be sufficient in the circumstances of any particular case" which suggests DWP could be flexible and accept evidence other than Fit Notes - but, in my experience, they don't.