Buying house. Extending the extension

Jamescaryn

We have agreed to buy a house.

It has a downstairs extension build 30 years ago.
It also had planning approval for the second story of this extension.
We want to buy the house and build the 2nd story on the extension.

Problem.
This planning approval has to be reapplied as it was a long time ago.
Our solicitors tell us that they cannot confirm building control for the EXISTING extension because it's over 10 years.

The problem is we have no way of confirming if the foundations currently there are suitable for this potential second story.

Architect says it Should be ok but cant confirm.
The vendors say we cannot dig and check the foundations unless the contracts are signed.

What can we do to remove any doubt or risk?

Cant seem to get much help on this.
Vendor is saying you cant dig a hole in our driveway. Which is fair enough.
Estate agents, mortgage advisors seem to offer no ideas, information or solution.

Any ideas?

xylophone

Is there a copy of the plans with the approved planning application?

It should show the depth of the foundations and this may indicate whether they are good for the load of the planned second storey?

Doozergirl

What do they mean they can't check if it's over 10 years old? The vendor should have the paperwork. If they don't and you need it then they'll screw themselves over if they contact the council directly to look at their archive - they would need to offer you an indemnity policy to satisfy your lender, but if you contact the council, the policy is void.

If this is a deal breaker to you - which it would be to me if I needed to know that my extension was buildable within budget, then you have to demand on digging the hole.

It's probably going to be cheaper for them to fix it than have you pull out at this point.

It's their problem to deal with or your prerogative to pull out.

If the ground floor of that extension is the same as the ground floor of the one that was approved then it should remain live as work only needs to be started. If you want peace of mind, you can ask for a certificate of lawful development from the council to confirm that the work has started and the PP is live.

Building control and planning are separate departments, so you can contact planning about permissions without alerting building control and voiding any indemnity policy.

Doozergirl

xylophone wrote: »

Is there a copy of the plans with the approved planning application?

It should show the depth of the foundations and this may indicate whether they are good for the load of the planned second storey?

It shouldn't and it's unlikely to as building control drawings are usually done after planning is approved.

The drawings mean nothing though. It's not going to guarantee what is in the ground and so the risk is identical to having nothing. It's an expensive risk if the foundations aren't suitable.

Jamescaryn

The solicitors says

They are unable to insist that the vendors solicitors furnish us with a building control regularisation certificate. Because it was done over 10 years ago.

Jamescaryn

Yes like they said.

No details on the 2nd story plans of foundation size width or anything. And even so all that would give is a nice feeling.. the builder could have done anything to foundations.
It's the official signature to say this is OK that is needed

Doozergirl

Jamescaryn wrote: »

The solicitors says

They are unable to insist that the vendors solicitors furnish us with a building control regularisation certificate. Because it was done over 10 years ago.

Regularisation is what you get if you haven't got a proper certificate.

A regularisation may not even prove the foundations...

Nobody can insist on anything, especially if it doesn't exist, but you need to be satisfied that the extension is structurally sound (even if they offer you an indemnity against enforcement as that isn't a guarantee against bad work) and you want to know that the foundations do exist...

Jamescaryn

Thanks for the replies. Think I know a bit more for sure.

I'm unsure if this new event is a red flag.

In discussion about checking these foundations with the agent. We asked about making the hole to check the foundations.
They said they would not allow until contracts are signed.. exchange was agreed end of Oct.
The agent and vendor also responded with. We need confirmation by 24 hours or they will pull out of selling to us.

Does this seem bizarre?

Offer is accepted. Mortgage acceptrd but their solicitor doesn't have the confirmation yet. We have had an architect visit twice and our solicitor is in the mix also.

Why would they put this arbitrary deadline on all of a sudden.. also the checking of foundation would be a formality as we would have bought in 6 weeks..

The wont let us check the foundations and now say you have 24hours or we wont sell it to you..

Doozergirl

It's all part of the process. You do your due diligence, they have to respond. Negotiations may continue.

You're saying that checking the foundations is a formality. Is it?

The cost of starting all over again is a lot more than working with what you have. Are you happy to accept that? Some people will buy without it because it won't be important to them, but if we're talking about £0,000s in potential additional building cost that can't be borne by you then it is important.

I can understand why they're doing it. I wouldn't behave in the same way as most houses have a square metre, if that, that can be dug up and replaced neatly. It's an unusual request, it's their fault that they don't have the paperwork but then they don't have to sell to you so they can say and do what they like until exchange.

The ball is in your court.

Jamescaryn

Formality as in. If it's what they say... I.e adequate to build then no problem sale continues and it's now our patched up drive and my 500 quid to a builder.

If the ball is in our court then I dont know what to do with the ball. As nothing has changed.
I've still made an offer that is accepted. Docs on the way. I want to check the extension is ok.

Wouldnt the end result still be the same.

They activly say we dont want to sell to you anymore because you want to check the walls. Surely that's their action.

All I can do is say ok I wont check. Can I please please buy your mystery house, I promise I wont ask anymore questions.

Which leads to a further discussion. In theory then the vendor can say you cant check anything they choose.....inside a certain room because they lost the key... or cant check the roof space because the ladder makes marks on the floor or you cant check the roof etc etc....possibilities are endless.

There are other ways to check things also and none have been presented or suggested by agent or vendor which leads me to think those mystery foundations are inadequate.

Just looking for some perspective.

Doozergirl

Well, you say what you just said about the formality followed by "I'm checking the wall or I'm forced to pull out"

It's a matter of phrasing it with the estate so that they know that you're deathly serious about buying the house if you can dig the hole.

And that you're not bluffing. It's then up to agent to negotiate between you again.