VCS Ltd EMA - Stopping in a Zone Where Stopping is Prohibited

yanib

Hello,

I am just about to lodge my appeal via the website and will use the template from the NEWBIES part. There seems to be a lot of information about VCS who I have received a parking charge for and I have a few questions if anybody has time to assist.

To summarize the situation: I rented a car from Hertz at East Midlands Airport. Didn't fly anywhere. I then dropped the car back and got picked up by a friend in my car. As its a bit of a confusing airport I walked down the road a little so would be easier to find. My friend picked me up from a junction meeting the main road which came out of a car park with a barrier, they only have photos of the car at the junction, the engine wasn't off, and there were some double yellow lines, but no double red lines (these are now common around most of EMA and have been added recently). I have a receipt to prove I was dropping off a rental car but I doubt this would be much use?

My main questions are - does it matter whether the road is a public road or not? And if so how do I check?

I only have an NTK and they do not know who the driver is - I read in another post that as VCS paperwork does not conform with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, there is no keeper liability. So does this mean as long as I do not give away who the driver is they can't do a thing?

Should I mention the above in my appeal on the website? The one on the NEWBIES thread doesn't appear to relate directly to 'Stopping in a Zone Where Stopping is Prohibited'.

Many thanks,
Yanib

Umkomaas

Do a forum search** on keywords 'VCS East Midlands stopping' and read and follow advice given to others. This is a fairly recent phenomenon at EMA so advice won't have changed.

My main questions are - does it matter whether the road is a public road or not? And if so how do I check?

Check with the local authority. VCS are not allowed to ticket on the public highway.

I read in another post that as VCS paperwork does not conform with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, there is no keeper liability. So does this mean as long as I do not give away who the driver is they can't do a thing?

1. Are you sure your NtK isn't PoFA compliant?
2. Whether it is or it isn't, it won't stop VCS pursuing you.
3. Check whether byelaws apply to EMA.

Should I mention the above in my appeal on the website? The one on the NEWBIES thread doesn't appear to relate directly to 'Stopping in a Zone Where Stopping is Prohibited'.

Do VCS accept online appeals? I thought they only take postal appeals (not that it matters much, your appeal will be rejected).

The 'one' on the NEWBIES thread is not 'incident specific', it's designed that way and that's why it's headed:

TEMPLATE ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' FIRST APPEAL THAT DOESN'T SAY WHO WAS DRIVING

**HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:

Hit your 'Back' button to get back to the forum thread list. On the bar just above the threads you'll see the 'Search' function. Click on the 'Advanced Search' button and on the following page place your keyword(s) in the 'Search By Keyword(s)' and make sure the 'Show Results As' button (at the foot of the window) is changed from 'Threads' to 'Posts'.

yanib

Thanks for your reply. I did a search as suggested and found one other post relating to EMA, so will follow the advice in there where applicable.

In answer to your questions - I am not sure if my NtK is PoFA compliant - looking at the other post EMA is covered by byelaws, and so if I am understanding correctly, that means it is not PoFA compiant? However I looked under the Automatic Number Plate Recognition section - it was some bloke in a car that just took pictures of the car from a camera on his car - so I am not sure if this counts as ANPR? Also under this section it says they must clearly say who the creditor is that's legally entitled to recover the charge - unless this is VCS I can't see where it states that.

Do byelaws apply regardless of which road it was at EMA? (Assuming byelaws do apply to EMA)?

So I guess for now I should just do the standard letter to them to appeal and take the template, and then wait until they reject it before writing another letter about the byelaws / going to MP / trading standards etc?

Yeah it says on the back of the notice I can appeal online via myparkingcharge.

Thanks!

Umkomaas

I am not sure if my NtK is PoFA compliant

Have you checked it out? If this gets to court, you're going to have to articulate this to a Judge, so rehearse it now via plenty of reading. We can't do that for you. Here's a couple of starters for you:

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

it was some bloke in a car that just took pictures of the car from a camera on his car - so I am not sure if this counts as ANPR?

It's what they do at any airport they prowl. Check out Liverpool John Lennon and Robin Hood Airport.

Also under this section it says they must clearly say who the creditor is that's legally entitled to recover the charge - unless this is VCS I can't see where it states that.

It's never won any argument previously, whether or not it meets PoFA requirements. It seems to be seen as a minor issue. It's not a straw floating overhead and it's not your 'showstopper'.

So I guess for now I should just do the standard letter to them to appeal and take the template, and then wait until they reject it before writing another letter about the byelaws / going to MP / trading standards etc?

By all means write now to your MP, and copy to the MP covering EMA (if different) and to TS, but there's no more you can do with VCS, unless/until they issue a Letter of Claim (or similarly titled) and/or real court proceedings. Get reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 about how to deal with any court that may come your way.

Sorry, but there's no magic bullet I'm afraid.

yanib

That's what I am trying to ascertain at the moment. From what I understand, EMA is covered by byelaws. In fact I have a PDF copy of them. And in accordance with the schedule:

3(1)In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—
(a)a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b)a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c)any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

It seems to me as though there would not be any Keeper Liability as the land on which the vehicle was 'parked' is subject to statutory control. But just trying to clarify that really. If this is the case the surely they have no way of winning in court?

All the contravention reason states is: 46) 'STOPPING IN A ZONE WHERE STOPPING IS PROHIBITED'.

Is my assumption that there is no Keeper Liability in the event that EMA is covered by byelaws correct? The PDF copy I have is the 2001 byelaws issued in September 2009 so I am wondering if these could have expired or somehow be irrelevant.

They're still available on the EMA website so I am hopeful not.

Thanks.

Redx

They have many ways of winning in court , usually assuming the keeper and driver are one and the same person

Pofa doesn't apply on airport land covered by bylaws

VCS pursue people regardless as Umkomaas said , same as LJLA and RHA airports

Read the UKPPO cases for Newcastle airport , you will see various defences including paying £100 to challenge the jurisdiction due to bylaws

Ie use other airports to learn the topic , because it's only recently that EMA and Southend (I think it is) have come about , it's a complicated topic so don't expect black and white , it's all grey

So no pofa if bylaws apply which appear to be the case , so check , especially check if the roads are public or not , see what the police said about Newcastle airport etc , I doubt the secretary of state has changed the bylaws , or rescinded them

Plenty of good info if you read about the other 3 airports

yanib

Thanks for the replies. I've been reading through the Newcastle Airport thread also.

I am pretty sure POFA does not apply then. In fact one of the photo's shows me getting into the car on the passenger's side and clearly not the driver. I just need to ascertain if the bylaws definitely do apply to EMA.

When you say check if they apply - what would be the best method of checking? I've read the bylaws from the EMA website and have taken proof of when I downloaded them off the EMA website (today).

Perhaps I should just email EMA without letting them know why, and get them to confirm if they are the latest bylaws and if they apply specifically to the road in question that I was using.

Redx

As you are one of the first few to get a PCN there who has come here , you will have to do the donkey work, helped in reading and and all airport threads

You could ask EMA , who will probably state that it's airport land and bylaws apply

Ask the police if the roads are subject to TRO etc , as happened at Newcastle

Start a WhatsApp group and or a Facebook group

As you found bylaws and nothing by the government to change or rescind them , assume they are in force

Assume pofa does not apply , due to airport land and bylaws

Keep up to date with other airport cases , especially at LJLA and RHA and Newcastle to check what works and why

Don't assume there are easy answers for bylaws issues , I haven't seen any easy ones in the 6 years I have been here , Umkomaas did tell you this earlier

yanib

Sorry what's a TRO and why does this matter? I've searched the Newcastle UKPPO thread specifically for TRO and cannot find anything.

I'd love to start a group etc but unfortunately I just don't have the time to get that involved in it. From the reading I had done and the NEWBIE forum it sounded as though I might have a strong case due to being able to prove I am not the driver (thanks to their photo) and bylaws applying to EMA meaning no keeper liability, however if it's a massive grey area and it's not a given that this fact will prevent any court case then I might just pay the fine. Unfortunately I don't have time to represent myself in court or spend hours on end researching and writing lot's of lengthy documents.

Thanks a lot for your help anyway it's greatly appreciated.

The_Deep

Nine times out of ten of these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

Adamc1994

Hi did you have any luck appealing ? I have just had one come through. After a 10 day stop in mid stay 3, one of my tyres had low pressure so quickly pulled into the garage, remembered my change bag was in the boot. Pulled just to the right of the air pump ( so I wasn’t blocking the way) retrieved the change from the boot and then filled up with air and was on my way.

Unsure whether to ignore, appeal or just pay up