Flat built on former petrol station

Thali

H
Hello,

we just received our contract and have accidentally not obtained a Environmental Report (don't ask, I ticked "Chancel Repair Search" instead :mad: ).

It's stated that a former owner was Shell, we therefore assume that there must have been a petrol station at some point. The building has been bought by the developer in September 2002.

We are under time pressure and need to exchange by Wednesday and it says in the contract that an Environmental Report can usually be obtained within 48 hrs - which is Wednesday.

My simple question is: is there a chance that the land in contaminated? I know, only the report will tell, but how about guessing?!?!??!

Thali

molerat

If the building is new build since 2002 I very much doubt that the land is contaminated as strict procedures have been in place for many years to ensure that industrial land is cleaned up before development. But as you say, only the report will tell.

Alias_Omega

Monday morning, speak to your solicitor for 'real' advice on what to do, why, etc.?

guppy

Hello,

First of all, "proper" advice is a "good thing" and should be taken at all times above anything you read here.

That aside, any contanimation report would undoubtedly tell you that yes, you are buying a flat on a former petrol station, and there is a good chance the land was/is contaminated.

As molerat said, recent planning rules are strict, and decontamination would be a condition of planning being granted. However if a poor job of cleaning up was done, there is no real way to find out, so the main thing to worry about is whether the price is fair given this (probably minor) risk.

If you search your local council's website you can probably read the orgininal planning application and read all about the history of the site and the remedial work that was done. If its not there, pop in, in person. They often open late one night a week or on Saturdays.

One other thing to bear in mind, if there are any problems with the site, real or perceived, now or in future, such a flat might prove harder to sell in a weak housing market...such as the one some people say we are heading in to.

Good luck

clutton_2

"remediation" is the word you are looking for in terms of cleaning up the residue of the petrol station - if is done properly it costs huge huge bucks !

PROFESSIONAL_LANDLORD

Normally, building control will req; the tanks to be removed or, filled with concrete.

Richard_Webster

One other thing to bear in mind, if there are any problems with the site, real or perceived, now or in future, such a flat might prove harder to sell in a weak housing market...such as the one some people say we are heading in to.

This is a fair enough point. The reality is that the search will almost certainly show the potential contamination and the problem will be obtaining paperwork to show it was all dealt with properly.

You do have to take into account"perceived" risk and they must come into your decision making process, but I have never really understood what the actual risk is. It would be interesting to see if there is anyone on this forum who can explain what the actual risks are.

There are three types of risk to my mind:

1. To the health and safety of the people in the flats, e.g dangerous gases exploding or causing cancer to the occupants;
2. To the building itself, e.g chemicals in the ground eating away at the foundations; and
3. To things growing in the ground,e.g. cabbages grown in the garden get contaminated and those eating them are poisoned.

My non-scientific mind thinks that the chances of there being sufficient quantities to cause real problems in cases 1 & 2 are very small indeed and as it is a block of flats OP is unlikely to be growing cabbages!

So in my book the main issue is really the potential worry that others may have when OP sells, rather than any real problem in fact, but someone with more knowledge may be able to correct me here.

Zazen999

Hi
Developers buy these plots becasue no-one else wants them.

BUT

As an ex-soil engineer; you would be surprised exactly how much contamination is in everyone's soil; however the risks increase many-fold when on sites that would have previously contained oil products; you can do the research into this online.
Always get the survey - it does cost but can save you thousands; esp in lost revenue when it comes to a resale. They would have done a survey prior to building, and there should be a site health and safety file which is held; so if there are any risks involved in either the building or the maintenance or demolition of the site; this would be noted.

Personally; I would be inclined to actually call the developer in question and have a chat about the job; maybe even try and find the person who managed the site at the time through this link, and get the survey done asap. That's pretty quick - so it will be a desktop survey rather than a soil survey...they will look at the previous surveys and report back. What about the people already living there; can you pop round and ask them about it? Have you found out about the original planning permission given to the developer? The council might have the docs available.

Another note on property purchases; if someone is pressuring you into completion - ask yourself why??? If there isn't a valid reason; then remember you are investing alot of money into this; so make sure it is right for you and you do your research. Visit again and walk around; are things happily growing in the vicinity - does it smell a bit - are loads of other flats also up for sale...without looking at the property it is difficult to comment but if there is a problem then the signs will usually be there.

If the developer has done everything right; then there will be no problem - it's up to you either to trust them or look into it to reassure yourself that all risks were taken care of.

Hope it goes well and you enjoy the new property.

Doozergirl

Zazen999 wrote: »

Developers buy these plots becasue no-one else wants them.

I don't understand this comment?

Who else would want it apart from a developer? And who would Shell have wanted to sell it to for maximum profit, aside a developer? I should have thought the motivation was that Shell felt they would make more money from the development potential of the site than than they were taking in petrol sales

OP. Your council will have a 'Contaminated Land Officer' and a quick phone call to them can be very interesting Being a modern build, I'm sure that all of the tanks would have been removed.

guppy

I suppose the known health risks must be quite small, given some properties are built over petrol stations in big cities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2002/jun/06/urbandesign.keyworkerhousing

Or maybe I am too trusting of the people that authorise this stuff...

Thali

Thanks Doozergirl - your advice was spot on :j

Hubby spoke to the Environmental Officer at Wandsworth council and he was actually responsible for overseeing the whole development. He is really excited about the building and told hubby everything about it, e. g. that they used a special paint, did something to the structure of the building and that it is build on a special "canvas cover".

Also, the solicitor promised us to have the report tomorrow before we exchange.

Can't believe it - exchange tomorrow .......... Just hope, we're doing the right thing :T :eek: :T

We had to rush a little bit as the tenants have a two months notice period (not just one), so if we had missed the deadline, completion would have been 28.02.08 instead of 28.01.08.