Bullied out of job, I believe due to pregnancy discrimination

[Deleted User]

What you are essentially saying is that you won’t take anything anyone says on face value. So next time I just won’t bother to post here. Anyone could be lying. I could be a terrible employee. Next time I’ll remember there is no point expecting people to not to immediately assume I’m making stuff up.

I think that invariably there are people on forums like this who have themselves been taken to a tribunal by an employee of their own. And that will mean their advice is not arbitrary either :undecided:undecided:

Exodi

OliviaPearl wrote: »

What you are essentially saying is that you won’t take anything anyone says on face value. So next time I just won’t bother to post here. Anyone could be lying. I could be a terrible employee. Next time I’ll remember there is no point expecting people to not to immediately assume I’m making stuff up.

I think that invariably there are people on forums like this who have themselves been taken to a tribunal by an employee of their own. And that will mean their advice is not arbitrary either :undecided:undecided:

OliviaPearl, if you intend to take this to tribunal, no matter what, then there's little point becoming agitated over responses.

Best of luck with it. Sorry we didn't give the answers you wanted to hear.

Comms69

OliviaPearl wrote: »

What you are essentially saying is that you won’t take anything anyone says on face value. - No what we're saying is there's 2 sides to every story and the truth is usually somewhere in between. So next time I just won’t bother to post here. Anyone could be lying. I could be a terrible employee. Next time I’ll remember there is no point expecting people to not to immediately assume I’m making stuff up. - Or assume that people are aware of the above point

I think that invariably there are people on forums like this who have themselves been taken to a tribunal by an employee of their own. - I can guarantee you that should that be the case, those people would have no issue with you taking some unrelated competitor out of the picture. There isn't an employers union here. That said, im not aware of anyone who has replied having lost at an ET as an employer. And that will mean their advice is not arbitrary either :undecided:undecided:

is not arbitrary?


So is NOT - based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.


This is why it's important to be careful with wording, moreso at an ET (or any court case).

[Deleted User]

I just wanted to come back and update this thread to say that 4, yes 4 other people since me have been treated the same way I was.

The latest one (a brilliant therapist) inboxed me today to say that she is taking the Salon owner to tribunal in April and please could she have a witness statement from me about how I was treated and the lies that were told about me. She has been working there long enough to be able to have a chance of success. I wish her good luck. 

I feel like people on this thread thought I was in the wrong and I really was actually a crappy employee. I feel somewhat vindicated to know that some people in life who own businesses are just sociopaths. It’s not normal to keep telling lies and getting rid of good employees.

thebrexitunicorn

Blatchford said:

OliviaPearl wrote: »

So yes, I get that being mean or even bullying someone because you don’t like them is not unlawful. But a tribunal only needs to be 51% convinced that you were discriminated against due to, for example, pregnancy for you to succeed.

Where did you get that gem from? A tribunal is a court of law. They require evidence, just like any other court. You don't "convince" them of things - you must evidence that what you are saying is true and that it is against the law. You have made it clear that you have no evidence of anything that you are claiming, never mind that it is discrimination. Everything you are saying is "evidently", "almost certain" and conjecture. Her case is that she knew for a fact that your were pregnant when she took you on, and had no problem with that at all, but your work was not up to the standard required so you were being reviewed during your probationary period. And what she has is proof that she knew you were pregnant and yet she employed you anyway. Everything else is then irrelevant because if there is no evidence of discrimination, she can dismiss you for any reason she wants, or even no reason at all in the first two years. But she didn't dismiss you, You resigned. That was a voluntary action on your part.

Just as a matter of interest, whilst you are digging up these gems, did you find the ones about what happens to people who submit allegations that they can't prove, when an employer can get costs for spurious claims?

You may be correct about everything you are saying. She may be the worst person in the world. But you have no evidence of what you are alleging, it is all guesswork, and you might find the boot on the other foot. You might not want money (although that really is a bit hard to believe) but she might.

People don’t generally get costs awarded against them just because they can’t ‘prove’ what they’re claiming.   If this was the case it would apply to everyone who loses a case, which certainly doesn’t happen.
There are cases that come down to one person’s word against another. The tribunal then has to decide whose evidence they prefer.  

I don’t know whether the OP has been discriminated against or not. If the employer did bully her because she had maternity related ill health that would be discrimination.  I have no idea if this is what happened or not. 

[Deleted User]

thebrexitunicorn said:

Blatchford said:

OliviaPearl wrote: »

So yes, I get that being mean or even bullying someone because you don’t like them is not unlawful. But a tribunal only needs to be 51% convinced that you were discriminated against due to, for example, pregnancy for you to succeed.

Where did you get that gem from? A tribunal is a court of law. They require evidence, just like any other court. You don't "convince" them of things - you must evidence that what you are saying is true and that it is against the law. You have made it clear that you have no evidence of anything that you are claiming, never mind that it is discrimination. Everything you are saying is "evidently", "almost certain" and conjecture. Her case is that she knew for a fact that your were pregnant when she took you on, and had no problem with that at all, but your work was not up to the standard required so you were being reviewed during your probationary period. And what she has is proof that she knew you were pregnant and yet she employed you anyway. Everything else is then irrelevant because if there is no evidence of discrimination, she can dismiss you for any reason she wants, or even no reason at all in the first two years. But she didn't dismiss you, You resigned. That was a voluntary action on your part.

Just as a matter of interest, whilst you are digging up these gems, did you find the ones about what happens to people who submit allegations that they can't prove, when an employer can get costs for spurious claims?

You may be correct about everything you are saying. She may be the worst person in the world. But you have no evidence of what you are alleging, it is all guesswork, and you might find the boot on the other foot. You might not want money (although that really is a bit hard to believe) but she might.

People don’t generally get costs awarded against them just because they can’t ‘prove’ what they’re claiming.   If this was the case it would apply to everyone who loses a case, which certainly doesn’t happen.
There are cases that come down to one person’s word against another. The tribunal then has to decide whose evidence they prefer.  

I don’t know whether the OP has been discriminated against or not. If the employer did bully her because she had maternity related ill health that would be discrimination.  I have no idea if this is what happened or not. 

Well. In the fullness of time, it would seem that this is simply how this employer behaves towards everyone, pregnant or not. It wasn’t personal. She simply wanted to get rid of me because the doctor put me off massage and that didn’t suit her. 

The employee who has taken her to tribunal and has asked for my evidence has been working there long enough to have more rights though. So I wish her good luck. 

deedee71

Thanks for coming back OliviaPearl.  I hope you can give your statement and get some closure on this.

Dasa

OliviaPearl said:

I just wanted to come back and update this thread to say that 4, yes 4 other people since me have been treated the same way I was.

The latest one (a brilliant therapist) inboxed me today to say that she is taking the Salon owner to tribunal in April and please could she have a witness statement from me about how I was treated and the lies that were told about me. She has been working there long enough to be able to have a chance of success. I wish her good luck. 

I feel like people on this thread thought I was in the wrong and I really was actually a crappy employee. I feel somewhat vindicated to know that some people in life who own businesses are just sociopaths. It’s not normal to keep telling lies and getting rid of good employees.

I haven't read this from the beginning but just to say our DIL works in the beauty therapy business and was badly treated. So much so that she decided to set up her own business and most of the clients went with her. And yes they have been working on and off through the pandemic ( at times we were providing childcare) so its entirely plausible that other employees have had problems.
Our daughter in an office environment had issues with covid19 safety procedures or rather lack of them but her concerns were ignored. She didn't push the issue for fear of losing her job.

I think bad employers are more common than you think.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the update OliviaPearl - as you pointed out, this could help anyone else going through the same.

[Deleted User]

I can see that the advice I was given about not taking it to tribunal was the correct advice. I didn’t come back here to say that I should have gone to tribunal.

It’s more that maybe, just maybe you’ll have found yourself at the hands of a narcissistic boss like I did. And the best thing you can do is walk away from people like that unless you have enough years of service under your belt. 

The gaslighting was in particular very upsetting for me. My former colleagues have now told me that after I left this job, the boss told them that the reason I left was because I hated all of them and couldn’t stand to work with them any more. This was, of course a lie told to stop us all talking to each other and finding out the truth. And it worked because they all stopped talking to me (as you’d expect). 

The truth does come out in the end. I do think that this situation is unusual. But if you end up doubting your own sanity it’s horrible. 

In the future I’m going to be much more careful and cautious when I apply for jobs and will not be so trusting. I will watch what could be going on as well as throwing myself into the job.