Court Case vs NCP/BW Legal

Newbatron

Hi all,

So the background to this is that in August 18 I overstayed by a couple of hours late at night in Bham car park operated by NCP.

I was caught by an ANPR camera however I didnt receive the £60 PCN from NCP as my car was still registered at my previous address so by the time I knew anything about this it was January 19 when I was contacted by BW Legal and the claim had now risen to £180. I did my research on these MSE forums and was given advice on how to defend (thanks all!) however I have been taken to small claims court by BW Legal for the sum of £257.60 due for hearing on the 21st Sept.

My defence was submitted to the county court and was based on grainy and unclear images as I used the SAR to obtain all the info NCP had on me. I also believe they have represented the image of my reg plate entering the car park as that of the image leaving the car park as it was too dark to identify when leaving late at night.

I also had a phone call from BW Legal 10 days ago stating that NCP would settle for £160 out of court, if not they would proceed for the full £257.60 in the court.

My question is this, given previous cases with BW Legal, how often am I successful in going to court and would you settle for £160 under these circumstances?

Any insight with knowledge of BW Legal court cases would be highly appreciated. I can paste in some of the documentation/evidence against me if needed.

Many Thanks

Richard

Coupon-mad

My question is, if you have been following the NEWBIES thread advice, have you submitted your WS and evidence in time? What did you submit please and did you include evidence and your costs schedule?

If not, search the forum for NEVER TOO LATE WITNESS STATEMENT.

If you don't you will likely lose due to only having a defence to rely on, which is completely against our advice in the NEWBIES thread. Hope I am wrong, if I am not, then get on with it for Monday submission!

We win 99% of cases, but only when posters follow what we say to do when, and how.

beamerguy

I also had a phone call from BW Legal 10 days ago stating that NCP would settle for £160 out of court, if not they would proceed for the full £257.60 in the court.

Doubt it is NCP saying this ?

The parking ticket is £100 and POFA2012 clearly states ... that the added £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process
IS THIS A NCP TRY ON OR BWLEGAL ??

This fake add-on is from BWLegal and you read about it hear
Abuse of Process ... District Judge tells BWLegal

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=76270104

Think about this ..... if BWLegal were certain they would win, they would not drop the amount by nearly £100 would they. ???
This always means that they are unsure of their case and the chances are they will discontinue.

£257.60 is ridiculous and the judge will also see that.

THE CLAIM SHOULD READ
£100 for the ticket
£25 for court hearing
£50 for legal costs

So, BWLegal are scamming you and abusing the court with pie in the sky amounts which they are not entitled to

If they do actually go to court, they normally send rookies, a rent for the day legal who are not the smartest page in the book.

NOW if you win, you can claim your costs up top £95

What is it to be, accept the scam and pay £160 or go to court where a judge will already know their total claim is a fake or win by pointing out the charges are simply not recoverable

You can then get them to pay you £95

Newbatron

Im slightly confused if witness statement and defence are the same thing? I didn't have any evidence unfortunately as wasn't smart enough to take any photos. However BW legal have been kind enough to supply the images. Below is my defence statement

Issue Date of Claim: 21/02/2019

IN THE COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No:

BETWEEN:

NATIONAL CAR PARKS LIMITED (Claimant)

-and-
RICHARD (Defendant)

________________________________________
DEFENCE
________________________________________

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

2. The facts of the matter are that the vehicle, registration XXX, of which the Defendant is the registered keeper at the alleged time of contravention, the car park was in total darkness. Ambient light from the nearby street lamps do not provide sufficient light to operate ticket machines in and around the carpark.

3. It is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person to a contract. Displayed on the claimants website was a service which if used would have meant the defendant would not have overstayed in the claimants car park. The claimant failed to present this service in its signage at the carpark in question. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.
4. Prior to any court hearing the Defendant has sent the Claimant a Subject Access Request (SAR) for the following:
i) Copies of all PCN’s held by the Claimant against the Defendant
ii) Details of all payments made at ticket machines on the day of alleged contravention under the registration XXX
iii) Copies of all images held by the Claimant of XXX

5. The allegation appears to be that the defendant ‘parked longer than time paid for’ based on images by their ANPR camera at the entrance and exit to the site. The BPA Code of Practice point 20.5a stipulates that:

" When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered "

The images supplied by their ANPR camera are grainy and unclear and do not show clearly, without reasonable doubt, that the vehicle shown exiting the carpark has the registration number XXX as is alleged. The images have also been used to mislead as the close up image of the registration plate of the alleged vehicle exiting the car park is clearly the same image used to show the alleged vehicle entering the car park.
6. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.
7. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery. Not only are such costs not permitted (CPR 27.14) but the Defendant believes that the Claimant has not incurred legal costs.
8. For the reasons stated above, the Court is invited to dismiss this Claim in its entirety, and toward the Defendant such witness costs for attendance at trial as are permissible pursuant to CPR 27.14.
Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.
Name: Richard
Signature:
Date: 01/04/2019

ShakeItOff

No, a WS and Defence are separate documents. The Defence is the legal aspect about why you aren't liable for the alleged debt, and the WS is your story.

And BW Legal aren't being kind, they are supplying you wish information that they must. It sounds like you may have received their WS and bundle. You may be out of time to submit your WS now.

Coupon-mad

The NEWBIES thread explains what to do, under the red heading IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN.

Come on, read that section again, you have no evidence or WS in yet, eeeeek!

Le_Kirk

Once you have re-read the NEWBIE post # 2 section again as suggested by Coupon-mad, look at some of the example witness statements (WS) provided. You will see that a WS is a narrative (i.e. your story of what happened on the day), is written in the first person and is in support of your defence as already filed. You can expand on points in your defence but not introduce new points (unless you are very cunning!)

Newbatron

Thanks. If I submit today what sort of estimate do you give my chances of being successful?

Court appointment is Friday!

KeithP

If your hearing is on Friday and you haven't yet sent your Witness Statement and evidence to the Court and the Claimant then you must get that done immediately.

You received a Notice of Allocation some time ago that not only told you the date and time of the hearing but also told you the date by which you needed to file and serve your WS and evidence.

File and serve your Costs Schedule at the same time.

Newbatron

WS has now been submitted through advice given in the Newbies post (I assume its to be sent to CCBCAQ@justice.gov.uk as per the defence and is too late to send by post?)

I'm a bit apprehensive about my chances and what to expect on the day. Can anyone give any insight? or point me in the direction of the correct thread

Coupon-mad

WS has now been submitted through advice given in the Newbies post (I assume its to be sent to CCBCAQ@justice.gov.uk as per the defence and is too late to send by post?)

No, you are sending it to the wrong place! The CCBC are not involved, they merely dished the case out to your local court with your defence, as an online service portal.

Bargepole's summary in his COURT PROCEDURES thread (linked where I told you to read, under that red heading) tells you where to send your WS & evidence - to your local court where the hearing is of course, and to the Claimant.

Stop reading parts of the NEWBIES thread and stopping! You are not actually following what bargepole tells you in his thread linked there. It's all spelt out very clearly and you have lessened your win chance perhaps, by fielding this so late, so at least send it to the right places and quickly.

The court WS and evidence is best handed in person as it would be a file of documents, some people's go to 30 pages or more. Email is fine for the scammers solicitor.

Also, what about your COSTS SCHEDULE (also explained in the NEWBIES, with examples of what to include)? That needs filing & serving too.

At the moment you've filed nothing, no evidence, no witness account and no costs. You need a properly organised file and contents page, all numbered and easy for the Judge to be brought on side.