Disabling e-Call on your new car

Nearlyold

Shame that couple who came off the road in Scotland a few years back and were not found for days didn't have the system - might have saved their lives.

I can remember when compulsory seat belts came in, some folks claimed they were dangerous because it was much better in an accident to be thrown clear of the car - presumably through the windscreen.

PS Have you edited the reply letters to change the salutations - elsewise you will have revealed your real name.
You can never be too careful.

Scrapit

facade wrote: »

Ones that were type approved from April, so if it is an old model, type approved before, then it doesn't need it, no matter when it was built or sold.

The OP even says that McLaren don't have them. Really is much ado about nothing

SHAFT

Nearlyold wrote: »

Shame that couple who came off the road in Scotland a few years back and were not found for days didn't have the system - might have saved their lives.

I can remember when compulsory seat belts came in, some folks claimed they were dangerous because it was much better in an accident to be thrown clear of the car - presumably through the windscreen.

PS Have you edited the reply letters to change the salutations - elsewise you will have revealed your real name.
You can never be too careful.[/B[

So Ian Walsh claims on a random thread to have purchased a new Porsche. What's he need to be careful about?

Fastship wrote: »

Business being booming in Brexit Britain I found myself in the rare but happy position of buying a new car. At the options ticking stage of my shortlist I asked the salesman (and in one case saleswoman) where is the option to delete the e-Call. To a man (and in one case woman) they said there is no option to delete e-Call as it was the law that it cannot be removed. At this point I will take a moment to explain what e-Call is for those who aren’t familiar with it.

e-Call is a European Union initiative intended to bring rapid assistance to motorists involved in a collision anywhere in the European Union. eCall was made mandatory in all new cars sold within the EU from April 2018.

The eCall initiative aims to deploy a device installed in all vehicles that will automatically dial 112 in the event of a serious road accident, and wirelessly send airbag deployment and impact sensor information, as well as GPS or Galileo coordinates to local emergency agencies. A manual call button is also provided. The device is not dissimilar to a crude cell phone in that it contains a sim card, communications circuit complete with transceivers that work through the vehicles speakers and microphone and links to phone masts.

The EU claims e-Call will reduce injury and death from road traffic collisions as the rational.

Depending on the final implementation of the system, it may be possible for the system to become activated without an actual crash taking place allowing the vehicle to be tracked at all times. Also, the occupants of the car have no control over the remote activation of the microphone, making a car susceptible to eavesdropping.

In the UK the system is administered by US telecoms company Avaya. Under US Homeland Security legislation US telecoms company’s are required to submit to data requests from any one of a number of government agencies. It is a federal crime to inform the subject of that data request.

OK. Despite the somewhat specious claims of the EU I am fully prepared to forgo the dubious benefits of e-Call for much the same reason I choose not to own a mobile phone. Further research showed that there is in fact a derogation in the legislation. The "European Standard" of the operating requirements of this technology (document "EN 16072:2015") allows, for the time being[4], for it (e-Call) to be "disabled" at the request of the car owner. Waving my research in the face of the salesman (and in one case saleswoman) I told them I couldn’t take the order any further unless they deleted the system at which point each of the salesmen (and in one case saleswoman) said I’d have to take it up with the manufacture. Which I did.

Mercedes Benz chose not to respond. The responses from the other manufacturers are as follows:

Lexus:
Hello Mr Walsh
Thanks for your enquiry regarding e-Call. I'm sorry that this new safety system has put you off purchasing a Lexus.
I'm afraid you can't disable it. It's a legal requirement on all new cars.
Kind regards


Jenny Shipley
Customer Relations Case Manager
Toyota (GB) PLC - Lexus Division
Distributor of vehicles, parts and accessories for the UK
and further:

Hello Mr Walsh
Thanks for your further email.
I've checked and eCall definitely cannot be disabled as it is a legal requirement. I think the legislation you quote suffixed 2015 has been superceded.
All new generation cars for any manufacturer within the EU will have eCall activated by default. This has been put in place to bring rapid assistance to any driver involved in an accident (airbag deployed or eCall button pressed in the car).
Connected services, however, are de-activated by default so if you do not opt-in to Connected Services, no data will be collected.
I hope this gives you a little more reassurance.
Kind regards


Jenny Shipley
Customer Relations Case Manager
Toyota (GB) PLC - Lexus Division
Distributor of vehicles, parts and accessories for the UK

and:

Dear Mr Walsh

Thank you for your email dated 11 September 2019 addressed to my colleague, Jenny Shipley.

I have taken the liberty to check our previous replies through our Legal & Compliance Department and we can confirm that our advice is not factually or legally incorrect. Our new models such as the Lexus UX, ES and Toyota Corolla, Camry and RAV4 have eCall and it cannot be disabled.

Unfortunately, it is difficult for us to comment on the replies made by other motor manufacturers.

Kind regards



Stephen Hinshelwood
Specialist Case Manager, Customer Relations
Toyota (GB) PLC - Lexus Division
Distributor of vehicles, parts and accessories for the UK

McLaren:

Thank you for your email and contacting McLaren Automotive.

No McLaren automotive cars in production have E-Call fitted.

Kindest regards,

Guest Relations Team


Guest Relations
McLaren Automotive Ltd

BMW:

Good morning Ian

Thanks for being patient while I look into this for you.

I have been making enquiries and you are 100% correct on the information being on the website
(15. How can the SIM card and the associated intelligent emergency call be deactivated/reactivated?
If you do not want to use the intelligent emergency call function (e.g. in case of a used vehicle purchase), it is possible to have the pre-installed SIM card of the vehicle and the associated intelligent emergency call function deactivated by an authorised BMW Motorrad Retailer. A corresponding indicator light will appear in the instrument cluster if the SIM card is deactivated. The "Reactivation" of the SIM card can also be carried out by an authorised BMW Motorrad Retailer.)
however BMW do not recommend this be carried out. I am just curious to know why the centre has said they cannot do this for you.

Could you please let me know which centre it was that gave you this information?

I will look into this with that centre and any other centres in the local area just to see what they say on the matter.

I look forward to your reply.

Kind regards

Reece

BMW Motorrad
United Kingdom
Reece Wood
Customer Support Executive
Summit ONE
Summit Avenue, Farnborough
Hampshire, GU14 0FB

Porsche:

Dear Mr Walsh

Thank you for your email.

I have liaised with the relevant teams and can confirm you can disable the e-call function.

When you purchase your Porsche, please notify your selling Centre and they will request a ticket here at Porsche Head Office and process your request. You will need to state you understand the risks and implications.

If there is anything further I can assist with, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Sara Hammond
Personal Case Manager
Porsche Customer Assistance Centre
On behalf of Porsche Cars Great Britain Ltd
Bath Road, Calcot, Reading, RG31 7SE


Ford:

Good Afternoon Ian,

Thank you for your email dated 9th September.

I have called out technical team regarding this request. They have suggested that from Ford's opinion that we would not remove this, and would not suggest removing anything from a vehicle. As we would always suggest leaving a vehicle as factory built. You would be more than welcome to seek advise outside of Ford, but we would not endorse any modifications outside of Ford.

I hope this helps answering your question and if we can help any further please do not hesitate to contact us further.

Kind Regards

Alice Sigsworth
Ford Customer Relationship Centre.

It seems that certain vendors pick & choose which laws they wish to comply with and which consumer rights they are willing to deny you.

To be clear, you have the legal right to insist that e-Call be disabled from your new vehicle.

Well, I am soon to be the proud owner of a new Porsche - without an e-Call system. For like minded prospective purchasers who do not want e-Call on their new cars who are told “no you will have one - it’s the law” please show them this and if (like Lexus, Ford & Mercedes Benz) they try to tell you otherwise exercise that most powerful of all tools you have, take your business elsewhere like I did and as we finally leave the death grip of the EU let’s hope we consign this sort of nonsense to history.

worried_jim

OP- is everything alright at home?

Nearlyold

SHAFT wrote: »

So Ian Walsh claims on a random thread to have purchased a new Porsche. What's he need to be careful about?

Over & Head come to mind;)

Ergates

So, you don't want an emergency system installed in your car on the off chance that the US government wants to listen in to your in-car conversations.

But you just, seemingly, posted your first and last name in a public internet forum.

You need to go back to tin-foil-hat school.

spiro

Nearlyold wrote: »

I can remember when compulsory seat belts came in, some folks claimed they were dangerous because it was much better in an accident to be thrown clear of the car - presumably through the windscreen.

A driver and passenger years ago were glad they were not wearing theirs when the car went through a large hole in Ryde pier and ended up in the Solent.

Hermione_Granger

spiro wrote: »

A driver and passenger years ago were glad they were not wearing theirs when the car went through a large hole in Ryde pier and ended up in the Solent.

So 2 people were saved possibly because they weren't wearing seatbelts.
How many have been saved because of wearing seatbelts in the years since then?

jbainbridge

The solution is simple - wrap the car in tin foil before you go out.

peter_the_piper

I'm curious as to why its such a big thing that the OP will not buy a car.