Just Ended Tenancy

organic_wanabe

I would be grateful for some advice. My son has rented the same flat in London for just over 6 years. As he had just finished University when the lease commenced, I had to act as Guarantor (and have remained so for each annual renewal, I suppose because it suited the Managing Agents to keep my name on the paperwork!). I also paid the Deposit of £1,710 which is held within a Tenancy Agreement Scheme.

My son has now given one month's notice as per the Tenancy Agreement. The Managing Agent is coming round tomorrow to check what work has to be done before the flat is re-let. The carpets were new when my son moved in and have now had six years of wear. The carpets are of the inexpensive nylon type. They use these on all the flats they manage (which is hundreds - it is a big company).

The carpets are fraying at a couple of the doorways and we have covered the edge with tape to stop it getting worse. In the Living Room the carpet melted a bit when someone ironed on the floor, albeit that a towel had been put underneath! I am more than happy to pay a share, from the Deposit, for this carpet to be replaced but would think that 50% of the cost would be fair. I would ask to be shown the official invoice if I thought we were being charged too much. Would this seem fair or should we be prepared to pay more?

Two years ago the Managing Agent, when it sent tenancy renewal papers for me to sign, inadvertently attached a copy of a Property Maintenance Invoice for a different property. I duly returned the invoice but kept a copy of it as it gave me an idea of what is done at the end of a tenancy and what they, the Managing Agents, had been charged.

The total was £640 (Parts £400; Labour £240) and it was for the Re-Let Works listed below:

Replace Lounge Carpet
Replace Deadlock on Front Door
Replace Blown Unit in Kitchen Window
Replace 3 x Sockets
Clean Bedroom Carpet
Repair Kitchen Drawer
Paint Front Door

I only expect to pay a share of one carpet. Everything else is in good working order. Surely I can't be charged for replacing door locks when all keys will be returned? I can understand that they may wish to change the lock but I don't think that it should be taken from the Deposit. In the six years my son has rented the flat he has paid a total of £99,560 in rent.

By the way the flat was unfurnished and will be left that way.

tom9980

organic_wanabe wrote: »

I would be grateful for some advice. My son has rented the same flat in London for just over 6 years. As he had just finished University when the lease commenced, I had to act as Guarantor (and have remained so for each annual renewal, I suppose because it suited the Managing Agents to keep my name on the paperwork!). I also paid the Deposit of £1,710 which is held within a Tenancy Agreement Scheme.

My son has now given one month's notice as per the Tenancy Agreement. The Managing Agent is coming round tomorrow to check what work has to be done before the flat is re-let. The carpets were new when my son moved in and have now had six years of wear. The carpets are of the inexpensive nylon type. They use these on all the flats they manage (which is hundreds - it is a big company).

The carpets are fraying at a couple of the doorways and we have covered the edge with tape to stop it getting worse. In the Living Room the carpet melted a bit when someone ironed on the floor, albeit that a towel had been put underneath! I am more than happy to pay a share, from the Deposit, for this carpet to be replaced but would think that 50% of the cost would be fair. I would ask to be shown the official invoice if I thought we were being charged too much. Would this seem fair or should we be prepared to pay more?

Two years ago the Managing Agent, when it sent tenancy renewal papers for me to sign, inadvertently attached a copy of a Property Maintenance Invoice for a different property. I duly returned the invoice but kept a copy of it as it gave me an idea of what is done at the end of a tenancy and what they, the Managing Agents, had been charged.

The total was £640 (Parts £400; Labour £240) and it was for the Re-Let Works listed below:

Replace Lounge Carpet
Replace Deadlock on Front Door
Replace Blown Unit in Kitchen Window
Replace 3 x Sockets
Clean Bedroom Carpet
Repair Kitchen Drawer
Paint Front Door

I only expect to pay a share of one carpet. Everything else is in good working order. Surely I can't be charged for replacing door locks when all keys will be returned? I can understand that they may wish to change the lock but I don't think that it should be taken from the Deposit. In the six years my son has rented the flat he has paid a total of £99,560 in rent.

By the way the flat was unfurnished and will be left that way.

The term you need to look at is "betterment" there is a sticky at the top of the forum by G_M that talks about deposits and deductions.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67759912&postcount=3

Socajam

As a landlord, I would not expect any outgoing tenant(s) to pay for the following after 6 years, unless

Replace Lounge Carpet - should come under wear and tear after 6 years
Replace Deadlock on Front Door - No
Replace Blown Unit in Kitchen Window - Yes, if it was not broken when first rented
Replace 3 x Sockets - what is wrong with the sockets?
Clean Bedroom Carpet - Yes, clean all carpets
Repair Kitchen Drawer - repaired if the kitchen cabinets will not be replaced
Paint Front Door - this should come under wear and tear

G_M

organic_wanabe wrote: »

....

The total was £640 (Parts £400; Labour £240) and it was for the Re-Let Works listed below:

Replace Lounge Carpet If because of 6 ys wear and tear, tenant not liable
If because of damage (eg tenant spilt wine, paint whatever) then tenant liable subject to 'betterment'. cheap carpet probably hasexpected life of 7 years, so after 6 years there's 1 year of lost life. Tenant liable for 1/7th of replacement cost.

Replace Deadlock on Front Door Why? If damaged by tenant, tenant liable.
Replace Blown Unit in Kitchen Window Probably wear and tear. Hard to actually damage these.
Replace 3 x Sockets Why? Has tenant damaged them eg banging into them while vacuuming...?
Clean Bedroom Carpet was the carpet clean when the tenancy started? What does he inventory say? Must be in samecondition when tenancy ends
Repair Kitchen Drawer damaged? Wear & tear? I can't see it!
Paint Front Door Almost certainly wear and tear. External woodwork (eg window frames, soffits, doors) of any property requires regular maintenance (3 yearly?) which is a LL job.

Most sensible landlords change the locks between tenants but that is a LL decision and a LL cost. I have spare locks that get re-cycled so don't even have to pay for new ones any more....


* Deposits: payment, protection and return

[Deleted User]

The items listed as chargeable at the bottom of the OP were actually for another property. The OP seemed to feel this was a guide as to how the LA charge, but its largely irrelevant to the property she is talking about.

Wait until you get a list of charges, then start looking at whether charges are wear and tear or damage, bearing in mind that after 6 years you shouldn't have to pay the total charge of new replacements for anything.

organic_wanabe

Thanks for the replies. I will be happy to pay for a proportion of the Living Room Carpet provided it is of the same inexpensive quality (and I will reclaim it from my son!).

I'm glad to hear that the tenant should not have to pay for the changing of the door locks. If they try to suggest that then I will suggest, as mentioned above, they keep the old locks and recycle them to a different property in a different location.

Just to re-iterate that the prices given above were not for the property that my son is renting but for one of the other properties in another location and it was a couple of years ago. However, if there is a problem with what they wish to charge, I will be sure to remind them that I have the list and the overall cost that I can show to the Dispute Resolution Service.

RuuElisa

I worked for a property management company which never changed locks. I don't think changing them is necessarily standard. If that other tenant changed locks then skipped out without finishing their tenancy, they may have had to drill or break the lock to gain entry and that could be the only reason it needed replacement.

From a personal perspective, if you think that they might nitpick about the doorways, then I would suggest you consider getting in first and making an offer to pay to replace that one room of carpet at full cost, while explaining that the doorways frayed due to being laid incorrectly. The reason is that it will save you the headache and delay and possible argument of it all. This is a big company well-used to contesting deposits and they will not blink at retaining the whole lot and stalling on returning anything. You might be in the right to only pay part - but you will be in the headache while fighting it. Your call of course! But imo, offering to pay for that one room is less likely to have the agent scouring the entire apartment and attempting to charge you for every speck of dust, for a full professional clean and carpet shampoo, for the slightest mark on a skirting board, etc etc etc. Requesting "official invoices" will probably not help you in terms of transparency or honesty. The carpet layer is probably on very good terms with your agent, the two of them are billing the landlord anyway and don't care about getting the lowest possible price, so the amounts might not bear any relation to the real world prices!

As for why you were kept on the paperwork for every subsequent new tenancy agreement there is a very good reason. Your son would have had to pass the credit check and affordability screening to take you off it. Agents avoid changing the status quo because it runs the risk he fails it and needs to be evicted, which is time-consuming, expensive and annoys the landlord, the tenant, and the tenant's parents.

cptrelentless

Wait until the exit survey, as long as the residence is left clean and tidy - certainly in London a professional will come through to assess the property compared to the inventory that your son will have a copy of from the start of the tenancy. Luckily now with deposit schemes there has to be justification for landlords to deduct money from the deposit and you can argue the toss with the deposit scheme arbitrating, rather than the landlord just making random decisions. Any bills etc need to have receipts submitted and the deposit scheme will review it all and make a judgment separately. Carpets and walls certainly fall within fair wear and tear, and as long as he's reported any damage/breakages beforehand he should be good unless it's obvious he's at fault.

[Deleted User]

I could well have missed it but not sure LL's have to present receipts and bills for damages. Money taken from deposits is compensation for damage caused, replacement or repair by the LL does not have to happen.

But will wait for correction if I am wrong.

melstar11

I wouldn't start offering to replace any of the carpet at full cost. It's cheap carpet and after six years of use the LL can't ask the tenants to foot the bill for full replacement.

You're jumping the gun. Wait and see what they raise. Your son needs to take lots of photos or a video of the place once he's cleared his things out and cleaned. Also you need to refer to the tenancy agreement. What does it say about cleaning carpets, etc? Presumably there is an inventory prepared before his tenancy started?

organic_wanabe

Just to report that I was worrying about nothing. As guarantor, I phoned the Managing Agent to say that we would not be paying for them to replace the Front Door Locks nor would we pay for Cleaning Services as we had seen a couple of flats in the block which were in the process of being 'professionally' cleaned and we thought we could do as well, or perhaps better, ourselves. Seems they agreed and so only £25 was withheld from the deposit for the carpet damage. The last day of the Tenancy was 6th October and the Deposit Refund was credited into my son's bank account on 22nd October.