Over 60 resident relative. How to avoid losing the family home to care home fees

xylophone

The council is entitled to consider whether in all the circumstances, action has been taken with the sole intention of avoiding the payment of care home fees - and actually, according to what the OP has himself stated, his moving into his mother's home would be exactly that?

My Mother is 85, owns her own home and wants to avoid selling the family home to fund her care, to the local council..

Since I am over 60, I am looking to move into her home as my main residence, ahead of any move by her into care to comply with rules I have seen

lisyloo

mrschaucer wrote: »

You seem to be misunderstanding what I'm saying.
We agree that once OP sufficiently proves he lives at the address then the disregard should become mandatory. But the OP seems to fear that DESPITE all his proof, the council will still have "wiggle room" to deny the disregard and regard it as discretionary.

I don’t think I am.
It’s not discretionary, however terms and conditions apply.

Deliberate deprivation is not black and white it all comes down to the motivation which can be hard to prove/disprove.

I think discretionary is an incorrect term in this context, however the decision over whether deliberate deprivation applies is not clear cut (unless the council found it written in black and white and could trace it to the OP - theoretically they could).

mrschaucer

xylophone wrote: »

The council is entitled to consider whether in all the circumstances, action has been taken with the sole intention of avoiding the payment of care home fees - and actually, according to what the OP has himself stated, his moving into his mother's home would be exactly that?

Fair enough! That makes sense, and I must have missed that bit in my read through. In that case I quite understand why the OP would be a bit worried.

MightyWhitey

mrschaucer wrote: »

Fair enough! That makes sense, and I must have missed that bit in my read through. In that case I quite understand why the OP would be a bit worried.

Exactly.

By discretion I meant the council will do their assessment and exercise their own authority and judgement. I guess law falls into a "grey area" sometimes and discretion as to legal rulings, such as whether evidence/compliance could be argued between lawyers and ultimately determined by a court.

I want to tighten the "case" before the event by covering off on probabilities, and i thought the best way to do that was to cover off on the guidelines with actions that comply.

But who knows. It comes down to the final assessment and then challenges. which i want to avoid.

Mick70

isnt there some legal document a family can complete to stop this from happening, although I think it takes a few years to become legally binding (after signing it)

MightyWhitey

Mick70 wrote: »

isnt there some legal document a family can complete to stop this from happening, although I think it takes a few years to become legally binding (after signing it)

I'm reaching out to a legal firm that specialises in dealing with the elderly regarding care homes, NHS and councils for advice. The intention is to receive an advice that covers my actions, should a representation by them be required. But i want to keep their costs down by doing my homework first.

Did you mean a legal document signed with the council?

Not sure this can be done as circumstances can change at the time of the event aka going into a care home time.

GunJack

MightyWhitey wrote: »

I'm reaching out to a legal firm that specialises in dealing with the elderly regarding care homes, NHS and councils for advice. The intention is to receive an advice that covers my actions, should a representation by them be required. But i want to keep their costs down by doing my homework first.

Did you mean a legal document signed with the council?

Not sure this can be done as circumstances can change at the time of the event aka going into a care home time.

You may wish to make it clear in your discussions that (assuming they apply) :-
1. mother doesn't currently need residential care
2. there's nothing currently to suggest she will in the future
3. you're moving in to help her out as required - does she have any "care needs" currently?

I think what's coming out in this thread is that:-
1. attempted deprivation of assets is real
2. people generally don't like the use of deprivation of assets to claim benefits and/or pass on property ('coz it's fraud)
3. it can be a bt of a minefield, even if you are playing properly within the rules.

It's an unfortunately emotional and iffy subject...but rules is rules ....

lisyloo

Mick70 wrote: »

isnt there some legal document a family can complete to stop this from happening, although I think it takes a few years to become legally binding (after signing it)

Can you give any more details?
I’m not aware of anything you can do to stop future action or guarantee future benefit claims or any fixed timescales.

Are you thinking of inheritance where IHT doesn’t apply after 7 years of being alive after a gift?

lisyloo

GunJack wrote: »

2. people generally don't like the use of deprivation of assets to claim benefits and/or pass on property ('coz it's fraud)

Because the level of state provision is very poor (it’s meant to be a safety net) it’s generally in the interest of the elderly to spend their money on getting better care which could be a vast improvement in their quality of life.
As well as a fraudulent claim against the tax payer I think the objection is that it’s not usually in the best interests on the person whose money it is and rather in the interests of beneficiaries.
I do appreciate that sometimes it’s initiated by the person themselves and not the beneficiaries.

Having been to about 20 homes in B&NE Somerset and south glos I have seen first hand what is on offer and I think many who initiate these discussions are not aware of the standard of state provision e.g. we saw dressings hanging off, people cold for want of a blanket, filthy toilets and stinking residents. My MIL is in a home for immobile, incontinent people and they are scrupulously clean, so it’s possible to do.

I am speaking generally and not making any implications about this case.

pauline123456

isn't there a cap on the total cost they charge you before the local authority steps in , or even if you had a £500,000 house they would take the lot if need be