Mutual exchange, pets?

Anon2213123

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Housing Associations and management companies of private blocks have these rules because of the potential impact of pets on other residents or on the shared/ common areas (inside or outside) or even on staff.

I appreciate that you have health condition(s) but your rights and your needs do not override those of other residents or staff. You are aware of the Housing Association's policy on pets, it is disingenuous to pretend that you do not.

You might think you are a considerate owner but, as you will know, many are not. Allergies, phobias, noise (barking, whining, 'zoomies'), mess if the pet is unwell, fleas escaping the property ... Carrying a dog through shared/ common areas in your arms or in a soft rucksack does not adequately address the ways a dog might cause problems for other residents or staff. And any promises you might make as to your conduct with your dog would be very difficult to enforce.

I agree with that. The big issue with it though is current tenant there has lived there with 2 dogs for 5 years with or without permission. If there were any issues then surely staff/tenants would have reported the matter and they would have been forced to leave? So that almost tells me that with or without permission, it's doable living there.

I guess I sort of know of the policy, although it's unclear weather it's a set in stone policy that they never budge on. Googling the terms there are lots of HA's that have exactly the same wording so it's likely they've copied and pasted it.

It's kind of like a blanket term, their reasoning behind it could be for specific reasons, i.e they don't want big dogs there that needs a muzzle as it might frighten other residents or one day the muzzle might not be used, the lead slips and the dog attacks someone. They don't go into specifics though as people could accuse them of "discrimination".

I know in the bigger picture sadly I'm a minnow in a gigantic pond and generally in society my health is nothing to most people (I don't blame them, the world is huge and I'm just 1 of millions of people). However with that in mind, if there's a chance of living there with no problems with my dog just like the current tenant is, then it's only logical that I would consider taking a chance with it weather my dog is allowed or not if it means getting the right support and help with my health.

The tenant would have to pay money at the time of putting in a request for a swap (as per their HA terms, they will have to pay for gas and elec checks to get up to date certificates to provide with their formal request to swap). This cost's them over £100. They know I've got a dog so that's more evidence that they might have permission? As why would they spend that money knowing the swap will be declined as they aren't allowed dogs and so it would be refused as I wouldn't be either?

With that being said, I know what you mean about implementing it and every with every reason for them not allowing dogs covered, the housing officer isn't exactly there all the time so if someones dog messed in a communal area and they left it there, without evidence the tenant will get away with it

NeilCr

Of course, there is a possibility that the reason she is looking for a swap now is because there is a problem about the dog

I am a director of a residents management company and we have a no animals in flats without our permission clause. It's difficult as most of us are animal lovers and we would all like to say yes all the time. But there are times you have to say no

In all honesty, it's easier to have the sort of blanket rule the HA has. It keeps it simple

Your most likely problem is not the Housing Officer being there or not. It's a neighbour complaining. And while it may be okay now neighbours change.

Fire_Fox

Anon2213123 wrote: »

I agree with that. The big issue with it though is current tenant there has lived there with 2 dogs for 5 years with or without permission. If there were any issues then surely staff/tenants would have reported the matter and they would have been forced to leave? So that almost tells me that with or without permission, it's doable living there.

I guess I sort of know of the policy, although it's unclear weather it's a set in stone policy that they never budge on. Googling the terms there are lots of HA's that have exactly the same wording so it's likely they've copied and pasted it.

The tenant would have to pay money at the time of putting in a request for a swap (as per their HA terms, they will have to pay for gas and elec checks to get up to date certificates to provide with their formal request to swap). This cost's them over £100. They know I've got a dog so that's more evidence that they might have permission? As why would they spend that money knowing the swap will be declined as they aren't allowed dogs and so it would be refused as I wouldn't be either?

You ARE aware of the Housing Association's policy on this matter. You cannot know the outgoing tenant's situation and history, nor do you need to.

There is no harm in you e-mailing to query the policy, no harm in asking what grounds the HA might make an exception, no harm in you applying for such an exception.

There might be someone with a lovely service dog in the flat downstairs. Equally there might be someone with a chronic respiratory (chest) condition and a dander allergy downstairs.

Anon2213123 wrote: »

I know in the bigger picture sadly I'm a minnow in a gigantic pond and generally in society my health is nothing to most people (I don't blame them, the world is huge and I'm just 1 of millions of people). However with that in mind, if there's a chance of living there with no problems with my dog just like the current tenant is, then it's only logical that I would consider taking a chance with it weather my dog is allowed or not if it means getting the right support and help with my health.

With that being said, I know what you mean about implementing it and every with every reason for them not allowing dogs covered, the housing officer isn't exactly there all the time so if someones dog messed in a communal area and they left it there, without evidence the tenant will get away with it

This is not general society, it is social housing. It is a community of people who share something with you: they were (are) minnows too.

It is illogical to come up with excuses so flimsy that you cannot even convince yourself! But it is human to briefly consider flouting the rules.

I hope you get the help and support that you need health-wise. (((hugs))) Without risking making yourself homeless.

Anon2213123

Fire_Fox wrote: »

You ARE aware of the Housing Association's policy on this matter. You cannot know the outgoing tenant's situation and history, nor do you need to.

There is no harm in you e-mailing to query the policy, no harm in asking what grounds the HA might make an exception, no harm in you applying for such an exception.

There might be someone with a lovely service dog in the flat downstairs. Equally there might be someone with a chronic respiratory (chest) condition and a dander allergy downstairs.



This is not general society, it is social housing. It is a community of people who share something with you: they were (are) minnows too.

It is illogical to come up with excuses so flimsy that you cannot even convince yourself! But it is human to briefly consider flouting the rules.

I hope you get the help and support that you need health-wise. (((hugs))) Without risking making yourself homeless.

Tonight's findings.... The tenant has lived there longer than thought (I've been snooping online more, clearly all the instagram pics are of the dogs in the flat). Since at least 2012.

In that time, and yes get this, they've lived there with a Dalmation, then a Labrador, then 2 yappy yorkies as of now.

When I need that place badly for my health, aren't those things a bit of a kick to the teeth? Seeing that stuff has been the reason why I've been considering to chance it. Legitimately this isn't me plucking evidence out of thin air to justify my thoughts, the pictures are there clear as day to see.

Fire_Fox

Anon2213123 wrote: »

Tonight's findings.... The tenant has lived there longer than thought (I've been snooping online more, clearly all the instagram pics are of the dogs in the flat). Since at least 2012.

In that time, and yes get this, they've lived there with a Dalmation, then a Labrador, then 2 yappy yorkies as of now.

When I need that place badly for my health, aren't those things a bit of a kick to the teeth? Seeing that stuff has been the reason why I've been considering to chance it. Legitimately this isn't me plucking evidence out of thin air to justify my thoughts, the pictures are there clear as day to see.

That turnover of pets is disconcerting.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

You ARE aware of the Housing Association's policy on this matter. You cannot know the outgoing tenant's situation and history, nor do you need to.

There is no harm in you e-mailing to query the policy, no harm in asking what grounds the HA might make an exception, no harm in you applying for such an exception.

<snip>

I hope you get the help and support that you need health-wise. (((hugs))) Without risking making yourself homeless.

Anon2213123

Possibly but in that time they seem like rescue dogs? The dalmation appears to be quite old, lab is adult in 2016 pics then its been the yappy ones since then.

I know and that is the plan. Trust me I'm genuinely thankful for your advice, just like I am everyone else and you've taken the time to help me.

The one thing (I know, you are probably really tired of the subject now). As we know there's "deeds of assignment" which is the final document to sign. I effectively take on their tenancy and all terms applied to it, so if before the current policy was in place they were approved to have dogs (without any special terms), then that means I would be allowed them (as I take over their tenancy).

If I let the swap go ahead, then when applying for permission to swap and saying I have a dog, they could say no based on the current policy. Yet if I said I didn't, they could approve the swap and once it's done, as per deeds of assignment (current tenants tenancy) I would be allowed them?

I've already contacted them via email to ask and they've just given me the usual generic copy and paste emails mostly. One part copying the exact terms, the other saying they view it on a case by case basis.

With what another member put, if I send that to the housing officer, then it's more likely to be officially logged and could seal my fate of moving if they say no (as they could be weary of me moving a dog there and might even check).

onwards&upwards

If you’re moving to improve your health and reduce stress levels, I don’t see how living in fear that the HA will try to make you give up your dog will help with that. Even if you think you’ve got a watertight defence it would still be highly stressful and anxiety inducing dealing with it.

I can sense your desperation to get this flat and I understand it, but you’ve ended up on bad terms with your local NHS and it’s stressing you out so much you need to move, how would it feel being on similarly bad terms with the people responsible for your home? The people you’d go to for repairs, for problem neighbours, for adaptations etc?

You are really over-thinking this, you just need to attach those pictures to an email and say ‘I can see the current tenant has had dogs in the flat, I need to confirm before I can go ahead that my dog will be allowed too, he is a small breed and I am a responsible owner, can you please confirm in writing that I will be allowed to keep him in the flat? Thank you.’

If you don’t get permission, you let this place go and get on with looking elsewhere.

Norman_Castle

Anon2213123 wrote: »

As we know there's "deeds of assignment" which is the final document to sign. I effectively take on their tenancy and all terms applied to it, so if before the current policy was in place they were approved to have dogs (without any special terms), then that means I would be allowed them (as I take over their tenancy).

The current tenant should be able to show written permission to keep dogs in the flat. Ask them to contact the HA to confirm this will continue after a transfer.

Anon2213123

onwards&upwards wrote: »

If you’re moving to improve your health and reduce stress levels, I don’t see how living in fear that the HA will try to make you give up your dog will help with that.

Trust me, it's not to reduce the stress levels per se.

Life is at a point where it truly isn't worth living, This is mostly down to support and services.

Take someone as an example with a broken leg.Unable to go far without significant pain. Suffering each day. They go to all possible services in the area who refuse to give them the treatment, mostly as treatment services don't exist in the area. They have exhausted every option.

That person then spends years, confined to nothing more than 4 walls and the occasional slight walk. Many times they've been in hospital feeling death is probably better because every single day they feel that without the essential help, how can they progress?

Eventually they find a potential trade, to an area with the perfect services the current area doesn't have. They've checked the initial details and all seems perfect for them, move there, support on the doorstep. A chance finally. Hope at last.

Albeit they find out there's a potential catch. With so few properties and people wanting to swap, it becomes highly unlikely they will find anyone else to swap with or at best, its going to be more months of suffering waiting for new swappers to join.

I wouldn't say I don't care about other tenants or anything like that, BUT, it's all about the current tenant. They've had pictures up of all those dogs and even pictures taken of the dogs in communal areas.

If the swap didn't happen, they could be living there for another year or 2 before another swap comes up with dogs in that property.

That's what triggers it in my head with "this could happen and is doable". Next year I could have that help/support and be back in work once again. Otherwise the suffering continues.

I'm worried to contact the housing officer because that could seal it. Yet if I was approved, moved in, started to get my life back on track with the help there, then put in a request with all evidence and pictures of previous tenants dogs, the outcome could be more favourable.


I don't know though, my last post on this.

Thanks to all for the advice, really appreciate it all