Architect fees for home renovation

TrixA

We are planning a significant home renovation project on our Victorian end terraced house (loft conversion, ground floor rear/side extension, changes to layout of first floor rooms) and after a couple of false starts with design & build companies have decided to engage an architect so we get a design we're happy with. The budget for the project is around £125k. We have spoken to an architect over the phone (friend of a friend), who has quoted us £2500 for a design to get us to planning permission stage and a further £2000 for the building control/technical design. This doesn't include structural engineer fees, building control or party wall surveyor, council planning application fees, and he also wants us to get a digital measured survey, he has suggested all this will cost us an additional £3000-5000.

I have two questions:
1) Does this quote seem fair given the size and scope of the project?
2) The architect is including the initial site visit in the first stage of the project - so we would have to agree to engage him before we actually meet him face-to-face. Am I being unreasonable in wanting him to visit and see the house before we commit to working with him? I was wondering if we could ask him to split out the cost of an initial visit and design discussion, and we can decide whether to proceed further on the basis of that conversation. Is that a reasonable thing to ask and how much would be reasonable to pay for this initial visit, I was thinking around £200?

Doozergirl

I think it's too much when compared to the budget for the work, personally. That's a massive chunk of your budget.

How big is your house?

£125k doesn't go that far when an entire house renovation and two extensions is involved - if you want to pay Grand Designs prices for an architect then you need the budget for a Grand Design.

It's imperative that your architect understands what your budget is and works within that.

It would be interesting to know why the previous efforts failed. Do you know what you're hoping for? Have you been using Pinterest/Instagram for ideas?

I wouldn't pay just to meet someone either.

Beenie

TrixA, think yourself lucky. We are paying £125K for a single-storey extension. That's just for the building company. Local authority fees, architect fees, structural engineer fees and soil sampling are all extra!

starving_artist

The architects fee is 3.6% of your budget. That is not expensive for an architect. Whereabouts in the country are you and are you in a conservation area?

Doozergirl

starving_artist wrote: »

The architects fee is 3.6% of your budget. That is not expensive for an architect. Whereabouts in the country are you and are you in a conservation area?

It is expensive! Just for the measured survey and drawings it's up to 7.6%. There's no project management fee in there.

The fees for drawings only are not directly relative to the budget.

TrixA

Doozergirl wrote: »

I think it's too much when compared to the budget for the work, personally. That's a massive chunk of your budget.

How big is your house?

£125k doesn't go that far when an entire house renovation and two extensions is involved - if you want to pay Grand Designs prices for an architect then you need the budget for a Grand Design.

It's imperative that your architect understands what your budget is and works within that.

It would be interesting to know why the previous efforts failed. Do you know what you're hoping for? Have you been using Pinterest/Instagram for ideas?

I wouldn't pay just to meet someone either.

It's a small terraced house in London, about 90m2. The type of extension we want is pretty common for the area, which is what real estate agents like to describe as "up and coming" However, our house is a bit different to others in the neighbourhood, particularly in terms of its roof construction and the relationship to the neighbouring property. This creates some specific design and planning challenges. Being novices, we initially talked to a couple of design & build companies who gave us conflicting and mostly incorrect advice about what we would be able to get through planning. It seemed they were glossing over the design challenges in order to get our business.

We then made a bad decision to engage an architectural designer, reasoning that our project was still relatively small and simple so we didn't need a full service architect. Unfortunately this guy was a disaster and the process ended with a failed planning application. We are now looking for a fresh approach with someone who can give us proper advice on design and planning. If it turns out our budget is inadequate for what we want we would probably look to break the project into two phases.

Doozergirl

It sounds like you need a planning consultant if you have specific constraints and want 'proper advice on design and planning'?

I'd have a quick chat with a planning consultant to see if this falls within their remit, but I'd also widen the architect search beyond the grand number of one before paying just to talk to them.

TrixA

Doozergirl wrote: »

It sounds like you need a planning consultant if you have specific constraints and want 'proper advice on design and planning'?

I'd have a quick chat with a planning consultant to see if this falls within their remit, but I'd also widen the architect search beyond the grand number of one before paying just to talk to them.

We've thought about a planning consultant but our project isn't really that complicated, it's just it probably won't fall under permitted development, which is what most of the professionals we've spoken to thus far want to point us towards. How does one find a planning consultant? I don't know anyone who has used one.

TrixA

starving_artist wrote: »

The architects fee is 3.6% of your budget. That is not expensive for an architect. Whereabouts in the country are you and are you in a conservation area?

We're in North East London, not a conservation area.

Doozergirl

TrixA wrote: »

We've thought about a planning consultant but our project isn't really that complicated, it's just it probably won't fall under permitted development, which is what most of the professionals we've spoken to thus far want to point us towards. How does one find a planning consultant? I don't know anyone who has used one.

Google?

I've had positive experience working with Boyer Planning in London but I didn't pay the bill

Is that why it was refused then, because people thought it was a PD and just wanted a certificate of lawful development then?

starving_artist

Doozergirl wrote: »

It is expensive! Just for the measured survey and drawings it's up to 7.6%. There's no project management fee in there.
/QUOTE]

I said the architect's fee was not expensive. Your calculation Doozergirl includes the measured survey, building control, pw surveyor, planning fees. There is no project management fee because the OP's brief stops short of the construction phase.

Some architects might charge £2000 up to planning if it's straightforward but £4,500 in London is by no means unsurprising.

Of course there are alternatives to hiring an architect eg. architectural technician but it sounds like the OP hasn't had a happy experience with that.

Doozergirl wrote: »

The fees for drawings only are not directly relative to the budget.

Some architects calculate their fees as a percentage of the build cost.

OP - you definitely shouldn't have to pay for an initial meeting which will be about making sure you are both on the same page and can work together rather than specific design solutions.