Sister had a dentist appointment and now Received Claim Form from Civil Enforcement Limited

teflondon

The Story: My sister had a dentist appointment back in December 2018. I went with her into the surgery, we were there for about 20 minutes and then left. I didn't realise you were supposed to give your registration number to the receptionist, as I have been there before with her and didn't have any issues.

What I have done so far: Since I'm relatively new to driving, and have had zero experience with parking charges before, when I received my first letter, I innocently replied by saying there must have been an error as my sister had an appointment at the time of the parking charge and included the appointment card from the dentist. This didn't work and they continued to send me letters, increasing the costs every time. It was passed to debt collectors who increased the cost and now I have received the letter by Civil Enforcement Limited.

Amount they want from me: Total amount of £267.25 which includes an initial amount claimed (£192.25), Court Fee (£25) and Legal representative costs (£50)

Current Situation: The letter is dated 20th August 2019. I have submitted my acknowledgement of service thanks to the sticky I read here. I am trying to compile a decent defence, and I have read some of the ones by bargepole. Would those still apply to me even though it was a dentist appointment. It wasn't a case where the parking signs were not visible (they were) but it was just assumed that they aren't enforced, especially with me being a newbie to driving and no experience of these things before.

waamo

What do you mean by initial amount £192.25? No parking ticket is ever for that amount.

At the top of this board is a thread that tells Newbies to read it first. Post 2 in that thread deals with the court process and has a walk through for you.

Can you confirm that the issue date on the form is 20th August please?

Redx

The dentist appointment is largely irrelevant

But the hidden registration terminal inside is relevant

Copy and paste the hidden iPad cinema defence, then adapt it , also adding the abuse of process paragraphs by coupon mad posted in the thread by beamerguy as well , due to the added spurious costs and charges they added

A typical case by PE is about £175

If you have identified the driver, then use a driver based witness defence instead of hiding behind pofa

Also get a written signed and dated statement from the dentist about the genuine appointment and how they don't want customers to be penalised, backing up your story

Post the draft defence below for critique, minus personal info

Why didn't the dentist management cancel the original PCN when you complained ??

As alluded to above , the initial charge was no more than £100 , not £192.25

And parking signs are almost always enforced, wherever they are

The_Deep

Amount they want from me: Total amount of £267.25 which includes an initial amount claimed (£192.25), Court Fee (£25) and Legal representative costs (£50)

This is abuse of process read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081

and ask the judge to dismiss the claim under case management powers, report the solicitor to the SRA

https://www.sra.org.uk/

and complain to your MP.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

teflondon

What do you mean by initial amount £192.25? No parking ticket is ever for that amount.

The £192.25 is what the charge has built up to after ignoring the letters. It was around £100 and now it has built up to £192.25

At the top of this board is a thread that tells Newbies to read it first. Post 2 in that thread deals with the court process and has a walk through for you.

Thank you, I will go through it again

Can you confirm that the issue date on the form is 20th August please?

Yes. This letter I have received Civil Enforcement Limited is dated 20th August 2019

Redx

That letter with the issue date is from the CCBC in Northampton not from cel

Cel are the claimant

The initial charge was £100 and still is £100 and the other £92.25 they added on are the abuse of process due to not being allowed, hence why judges Grand and Taylor have thrown them out

Hence why you object to those added spurious additional charges

Please confirm that the issue date of the 20 th is on the claim form from the CCBC in Northampton which is what we are asking and you keep providing incorrect information

teflondon

Redx wrote: »

That letter with the issue date is from the CCBC in Northampton not from cel

Cel are the claimant

The initial charge was £100 and still is £100 and the other £92.25 they added on are the abuse of process due to not being allowed, hence why judges Grand and Taylor have thrown them out

Hence why you object to those added spurious additional charges

Please confirm that the issue date of the 20 th is on the claim form from the CCBC in Northampton which is what we are asking and you keep providing incorrect information

Sorry for the confusion. Yes 20th August is the issue date on the claim form from CCBC

teflondon

Redx wrote: »

The dentist appointment is largely irrelevant

But the hidden registration terminal inside is relevant

Copy and paste the hidden iPad cinema defence, then adapt it , also adding the abuse of process paragraphs by coupon mad posted in the thread by beamerguy as well , due to the added spurious costs and charges they added

A typical case by PE is about £175

If you have identified the driver, then use a driver based witness defence instead of hiding behind pofa

Also get a written signed and dated statement from the dentist about the genuine appointment and how they don't want customers to be penalised, backing up your story

Post the draft defence below for critique, minus personal info

Why didn't the dentist management cancel the original PCN when you complained ??

As alluded to above , the initial charge was no more than £100 , not £192.25

And parking signs are almost always enforced, wherever they are

There was no hidden terminal in the practice. You were just supposed to give your registration number to the receptionist which I wasn't aware of. Can I still use the defence of hidden ipad terminal. I am compiling my defence now.

When we initially complained to the manager of the practice they said they can't cancel it and I would have to appeal the charge.

I

Umkomaas

When we initially complained to the manager of the practice they said they can't cancel it and I would have to appeal the charge.

Go back and try again. Ask them are they happy for one of their patients to be sued for almost £300 because their receptionist failed to ask for the car registration number?

As this will be a vital issue around which the case is likely to revolve in the court, you will need to have the court call on a member of staff of the practice for questioning. Ask for the name of the representative, and a list of dates for which they would be unavailable, so the court can fix the trial to avoid those.

A bit of bluff in some of that, but one thing's for sure, you are going to have to face court (and all the work that will bring you) unless you can get the practice to direct CEL to cancel.

Take the court claim form with you to show them (you could also take a copy with you to leave with them) as proof of how the practice is exposing its patients to litigation and not providing any assistance to them.

Also take this with you, ask if they are aware of the NHS guidelines, and if they are, why are they not complying?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Are you also a patient of the practice?

Just to ensure we're on the right track with the claim - are you the registered keeper of the vehicle and is it your name on the claim form?

The_Deep

As virtually all of these cases are scams you are in an excellent position to play hard ball, use it.

NeilCr

Can we, also, just check that the car park "belongs" to the dentists.

It's not a communal use one is it? I'd be surprised but I have seen cases where doctors have access to a public car park.