Parking Fine on Company vehicle

LGRNOR

Hi All,

I am hoping you can help me. There are lots of great threads on what to do for private parking tickets for individuals but my scenario is a little different and perhaps more complicated. My company has received a PCN from Euro Car Parks for my company vehicle failing to display an appropriate 'pay & display' ticket in a private car park. My employer is based in Scotland however the vehicle is based in Manchester which is where the PCN was issued. Do my employer have to identify me as the driver? Is there any appeal for them to go through to say they don't know who the driver was or can't identify the driver? Are they liable for the fine if they do that?

Any help appreciated, i don't want to pay these sharks anymore than i absolutely have to if necessary.
Cheers!

Redx

No , your company should not identify you as driver because they have absolutely no idea who was driving so cannot categorically swear on oath that you were the driver

They can and should name you as hirer or as lessee , meaning that you are the keeper of the vehicle, meaning that you may know who was driving, but you are under no obligation to reveal who was driving to this PPC, so keep that a secret

Read the hire and lease info at the bottom of post 1 if the newbies faq sticky thread near the top of the forum, where examples of this and explanations can be found

There is no fine , despite you incorrectly calling it a fine , it's an invoice , same as what you deal with daily, like their fuel invoices they receive when a driver fills up at the petrol station

You are muddying the waters if you use the word fine , so avoid it like the plague, it can make things worse for you and also confuses people like your employer.

There is no keeper liability in Scotland, so your company need not worry

Let them name you as lessee or hirer (keeper) then come back when you have a PCN in your own name, also revealing other information too

Make sure they never mention the word driver, you are the keeper, other people including me or the police or your mechanic who services the vehicle could have been the driver

Umkomaas

If the Notice to Keeper is addressed to an address in Scotland, then the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) does not apply there and as the registered keeper of the vehicle is your company, they have no liability.

They could easily fob off ECP with a short letter to say that they cannot hold them liable (PoFA doesn't apply in Scotland) and company vehicles can be driven by any of the company's x number of staff. But if ECP can provide the name of the driver to the company, they will happily pass on the notice to that driver.

Just to check - did the NtK go direct to the company, or has it come via a lease company intermediary?

DoaM

If I'm reading the sub-text to your OP correctly ... the company have told you that a PCN has been received for the company vehicle that is normally assigned to you (and on which you pay BIK tax) - yes? If so - check your company's Car Policy in the section where they talk about Fines, Penalties etc. and that the cost of those will be deducted from salary. You'll probably find that invoices (Parking charge notices) are not covered in the wording thus they'd be in breach of policy if they tried to deduct the cost from your salary.

Redx

DoaM wrote: »

If I'm reading the sub-text to your OP correctly ... the company have told you that a PCN has been received for the company vehicle that is normally assigned to you (and on which you pay BIK tax) - yes? If so - check your company's Car Policy in the section where they talk about Fines, Penalties etc. and that the cost of those will be deducted from salary. You'll probably find that invoices (Parking charge notices) are not covered in the wording thus they'd be in breach of policy if they tried to deduct the cost from your salary.

This is why I gave detailed advice because I want to avoid such a legal wrangle from happening , because companies tend to pay invoices and parking companies know this

LGRNOR

Thanks for the advice. The company sent the 'Notice to Keeper' to me by e-mail after it was received by them at their HQ in Scotland. The company own the vehicle outright so there is no leasing company involved.
The company handbook states "FINES - We shall not under any circumstances accept responsibility for parking or other fines incurred by you. The cost of these fines if not paid may be deducted from your pay."

The_Deep

This is not a fine, this is an invoice for the harm they allege you have caused them by your criminal actions, pay them not a penny unless a judge in court orders it.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

LGRNOR

Thanks for the help so far guys. I have drafted a response for my employer to (hopefuly) send to them, how does it seem?

RE: PCN 8888XXXXXXX

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you regarding the PCN received on 23/07/2019 for vehicle registration XX15 XXX. As I am sure you will be aware the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) does not apply in Scotland and as such as the registered keeper of the vehicle in question we have no liability.

The vehicle can be driven by a number of our employees who all hold the correct driving licence to enable them to do so, it can also be driven by other drivers provided they have in place the appropriate driving licence and permission from a company representative.

If you are able to provide the name of the driver on the day in question then we will happily pass the PCN to them for payment.
Yours....

Cheers.

Redx

LGRNOR wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. The company sent the 'Notice to Keeper' to me by e-mail after it was received by them at their HQ in Scotland. The company own the vehicle outright so there is no leasing company involved.
The company handbook states "FINES - We shall not under any circumstances accept responsibility for parking or other fines incurred by you. The cost of these fines if not paid may be deducted from your pay."

Remove the PCN reference from your post above


Then you should appeal it as hirer or lessee (keeper) in your own name and giving your own address for service of papers

Once a PCN comes in your own name you appeal it as hirer or lessee because the PPC will have failed in their obligations

Due to that wording above , because this is an invoice that you have incurred (not a FINE) then the company cannot call it a fine so ensure you challenge it if they treat it as a fine, on the grounds that it isn't one and the word fine is not mentioned anywhere on the invoice

It may seem pedantic , but it's legally correct

Come back to this thread when you have a response from the PPC in your own name, when they have rejected your appeal

If your company are willing to play ping pong then do what you said above , but my reply is based on your company not wishing to get involved , or worse to pay and charge you as per the handbook

If they say it's your problem , deal with it or we will pay it and deduct from your salary , then appeal it as lessee in your own name

Only you will know how your company will be on this , supportive , or
no , your problem , you deal with it

Umkomaas

I agree with Redx. If your company will play ball and send that letter** it should kill it dead. If they won't, then the process Redx outlines will be the next step to take.

** I'd amend it slightly ....

If you are able to provide the name of the driver on the day in question then we will happily pass the PCN to them [STRIKE]for payment[/STRIKE] to deal with.

Redx

Agreed , it should not state anything about payment , good spot

Your company must not promise anything in writing, other than to pass it on