What gives you meaningful existence?

JoeEngland

Just spotted this article where Edmund Phelps claims that work is the source of meaningful existence for most people:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48882195

What are the views of retired people here about that? I would have thought that for many, if not most, people work is a means to an end rather than something meaningful. If some people have a deeply fulfilling job they don't want to give up then that's good for them. Being retired gives you the time and headspace to do more things and perhaps find out who the "real" you is.

Albermarle

There is already a thread open on this topic:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6038862

Linton

Seeing, learning and understanding more. Though that was what has been an important part of meaningful existance ever since I was a child, work paid me to do it. When work was no longer necessary I stopped and never looked back.

atush

Sounds like a Friday question lol

bugslett

I dont think I've ever had one, I generally view life, certainly mine, as pointless, but on that basis I'm not going to be upset in retirement.

lollynerd

Hi Joe,
I don't find life meaningless, but I do miss earning money.
I have enough money, but after all those years of accumulation, paying off the mortgage, etc I miss bringing in the cash.
I guess Rupert Murdoch, Warren Buffett, etc carry on for the same reason (on a slightly different scale). But the enjoyment of making money never goes away.

EdSwippet

bugslett wrote: »

I dont think I've ever had one, I generally view life, certainly mine, as pointless, but on that basis I'm not going to be upset in retirement.

That seems rather bleak!

I am no longer employed, but I view myself as a still 'working'. Just that my full time job now is to improve my subjective experience of life. I am far from idle, but each new thing I tackle or decide to do is measured against that yardstick. This job pays no salary, but its rewards are worth a lot more. Also, tax-free. :-)

Of course, when somebody asks me to label this, I'll use the r-word for simplicity. Any other description quickly becomes tricky to explain ...

bugslett

It does seem bleak Ed, I understand that. This thread has really got me thinking about the definition of meaning and purpose and therefore we may have different interpretations.

To me meaning and purpose is something quite grand, it's what makes people 'someone'. I have things I enjoy, my life is mostly full, I have a wide circle of friends and I'm mostly a happy person. Maybe that's meaning for some people.

As for pointless well, we live, muddle around a bit in the middle and then fall off our perch. In reality most of us lead such banal lives that it's difficult to see why it matters beyond friends and family if we continue to draw breath. I do BTW, enjoy the very small day to day bits of my life.

Might be time to contemplate that philosophy degree:D.

Sea_Shell

I know what you mean Bugslett.

Unless you go down in history forever like Darwin, Newton, Einstein, Picasso etc. Then beyond our family, what 'meaning' is there to 'life'.

The world still turns without us!!

Within a couple of generations, I'll just be entry on the public record, of no interest to anyone. Not even to genealogists of the future (no descendents here!!)

For most of us, we're born, we grow old, we die, with nothing else of note to record.

Nothing to say you can't have a blooming good time while you are here though...just without 'meaning'.

Happy Wednesday everyone!!

EdSwippet

bugslett wrote: »

As for pointless well, we live, muddle around a bit in the middle and then fall off our perch. In reality most of us lead such banal lives that it's difficult to see why it matters beyond friends and family if we continue to draw breath.

Wow! I doubt any of my acquaintances would label me as any form of 'optimist', but in terms of pessimism you might well have me beaten. Here's an article that sums up my thinking:

https://www.psychologies.co.uk/joy-being-average

It may help that I don't own a television, never use the web without an ad-blocker, and do not subscribe to social media -- beyond sites like this, obviously! -- so I am not constantly bombarded by advertising or other messages telling me (either overtly or via subtext) what I should aspire to.

When you boil it down, our own conscious experience is really all we have. The aim as I see it is to make that as fulfilling as possible. I learn new languages, do art, and go to the gym most days. These are all things I did not do when working, but I do them now precisely because they are challenging and new, are well outside my pre-retirement capabilities, and excelling at them is probably beyond my natural ability too. And crucially, none are goal-oriented; you can never be too fluent in a foreign language, too good at art, or too fit.

bugslett wrote: »

Might be time to contemplate that philosophy degree.

Then do! Philosophy is something else I had zero experience of before retiring, but last year I did this (free!) online course from MIT:

https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-to-philosophy-god-knowledge-and-consciousness-2

It's brilliant. Challenging, thought-provoking, and entertaining (fun, even). The instructor is a Brit, and somewhat of a wag. Recommended. I imagine taking a degree in this to be an excellent use of retirement.

cfw1994

EdSwippet wrote: »

Wow! I doubt any of my acquaintances would label me as any form of 'optimist', but in terms of pessimism you might well have me beaten. Here's an article that sums up my thinking:

https://www.psychologies.co.uk/joy-being-average

It may help that I don't own a television, never use the web without an ad-blocker, and do not subscribe to social media -- beyond sites like this, obviously! -- so I am not constantly bombarded by advertising or other messages telling me (either overtly or via subtext) what I should aspire to.

When you boil it down, our own conscious experience is really all we have. The aim as I see it is to make that as fulfilling as possible. I learn new languages, do art, and go to the gym most days. These are all things I did not do when working, but I do them now precisely because they are challenging and new, are well outside my pre-retirement capabilities, and excelling at them is probably beyond my natural ability too. And crucially, none are goal-oriented; you can never be too fluent in a foreign language, too good at art, or too fit.


Then do! Philosophy is something else I had zero experience of before retiring, but last year I did this (free!) online course from MIT:

https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-to-philosophy-god-knowledge-and-consciousness-2

It's brilliant. Challenging, thought-provoking, and entertaining (fun, even). The instructor is a Brit, and somewhat of a wag. Recommended. I imagine taking a degree in this to be an excellent use of retirement.

I don't read Bugslett's reply as pessimistic.....more stating a stark reality for the majority of us!
In terms of meaning, I like that fact that retirement gives us the freedom to chose how we spend our hours, rather than having to earn £££ to survive.
Mind you, I'm not quite there yet.....& I am sure the deeply meaningful things I do for my company will be sorely missed. For an hour or two at least....:rotfl: