Calculating ESA

sportsarb

calcotti wrote: »

My thinking is that even so, when someone has been on ESA for a lengthy period they are not going to meet the new claim conditions because although they will have NI credits they will not meet the requirement to have 26 weeks of actual payment (or being treated as having paid). Therefore the ongoing ESA remains as income based.

I'm saying they don't need to satisfy the new RITY's. Unless the info below has been revised.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/181603/esa-changes-q-and-a.pdf

Contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance is not time limited for
claimants in the Support Group. If someone’s contribution-based Employment
and Support Allowance ceases as a result of time limiting and their health
deteriorates to such a degree that they move to the Support Group, then, as
long as they have continued to have limited capability for work, they will, on a
repeat claim, automatically qualify for a further award of contribution-based

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-esa-queries-results/88646-esa-support-group-to-wrag

1. If your condition deteriorates such that you believe you meet the criteria for the Support Group, you can request a Supersession (on this basis), which will result in you being re-assessed, if placed in the Support Group, your payments will be re-instated if stopped, or, the count will be paused if you are still receiving payment while in the WRAG.

I appreciate that these are quite dated but on searching nothing more recent came up. Have the provisions which are referred to in those excerpts no longer in effect?

Before I stopped working in ESA there were hundreds if not thousands of these cases where it went, Support Group, WRAG and time limiting, Support group and payment reinstated based on the original claim because Support Group is not subject to time limiting and the RITY's the claim was decided upon are satisfied.

poppy12345

sportsarb wrote: »

I'm saying they don't need to satisfy the new RITY's. Unless the info below has been revised.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/181603/esa-changes-q-and-a.pdf



https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/forum/10-dla-esa-queries-results/88646-esa-support-group-to-wrag



I appreciate that these are quite dated but on searching nothing more recent came up. Have the provisions which are referred to in those excerpts no longer in effect?

Before I stopped working in ESA there were hundreds if not thousands of these cases where it went, Support Group, WRAG and time limiting, Support group and payment reinstated based on the original claim because Support Group is not subject to time limiting and the RITY's the claim was decided upon are satisfied.

That link is different to the OP circumstances. That persons ESA stopped because of the 365 day rule and they were entitled to Income Related.


Here, the person claimed Income Related while in the WRAG for 2 years. How is it possible for them to go back onto CB when they were placed back into the Support Group? It's not possible.

sportsarb

poppy12345 wrote: »

That link is different to the OP circumstances. That persons ESA stopped because of the 365 day rule and they were entitled to Income Related.


Here, the person claimed Income Related while in the WRAG for 2 years. How is it possible for them to go back onto CB when they were placed back into the Support Group? It's not possible.

The entitlement to ESA(C) is all that is relevant.

The two links I provided cover entitlement to ESA(C) on subsequent Support Group awards after ESA(C) has been time limited due to 365 days in the WRAG.

Those links, and all the cases I saw while working in ESA myself, are why I have stated what I have stated. It certainly was possible unless the provisions have been revised. If they have been, so be it, but you certainly could become entitled to ESA(C) again.

FWIW, I agree with taking the issue to CAB or the likes, they can give the best help.

calcotti

Sportsarb. I think the first bit you have quoted at post #22 is missing a key bit. The whole section says:

If someone has claimed contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance for 365 days will they be able to re-qualify?
Claimants may be able to re-qualify for a further 365 days of Employment and Support Allowance if they leave benefit for more than 12 weeks and, on a repeat claim, they meet the National Insurance conditions in full.

Contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance is not time limited for claimants in the Support Group. If someone’s contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance ceases as a result of time limiting and their health deteriorates to such a degree that they move to the Support Group, then, as long as they have continued to have limited capability for work, they will, on a repeat claim, automatically qualify for a further award of contribution-based

Employment and Support Allowance. This award will continue for as long as they remain in the Support Group. If they are later placed in the Work Related Activity Group, their award will end, unless they re-qualify using new National Insurance contributions

.
To me the first paragraph including the bit I have highlighted in bold is a key consideration which doesn’t appear to apply in the OP’s case.

I am not confident of the answer - just trying to unpick the information.

calcotti

Sportsarb, have now found this in Decision Makers Guide
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/804872/dmgch41.pdf

Where
1. entitlement to ESA(Cont), including under the youth provisions, has been terminated as in DMG 41810 or 41815 because it exceeded 365 days and
2. the claimant
2.1 reports a deterioration in their health condition or
2.2 makes a further claim for ESA(Cont) and
3. the claimant had, or is treated as having had, LCW since the previous entitlement ended and
4. the claimant satisfies the basic conditions of entitlement (see DMG 41012) and
5. the DM determines that the claimant has, or is treated as having, LCWRA the claimant is entitled to an award of ESA(Cont), even though they do not satisfy the contribution conditions. The award is regarded as an award of ESA(Cont) for all other purposes, for example amounts payable.

This seems to confirm your take on being able to resume ESA(C).

sportsarb

calcotti wrote: »

Sportsarb, have now found this in Decision Makers Guide
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/804872/dmgch41.pdf



This seems to confirm your take on being able to resume ESA(C).

Yes, that's what I was trying to outline in my previous posts, although I may not have been as good as I wanted to be in explaining it thoroughly enough.

They've written it in a typically DMG way which doesn't outright state it the way I did but it does have the effect that on returning, or being placed for the first time, to the Support Group a previously payable ESA(C) claim can become payable again without having to satisfy subsequent RITYs.

The intent of that reform was to get the WRAG to be more like JSA, which is also time limited, and they're 'expectation' was that people should only ever be in the WRAG for a short amount of time.

It would have been particularly perverse to punish people that the government were accepting are the 'most in need' or however they phrase it.