Who will accept a DB to SIPP transfer from "insistent client"

[Deleted User]

coyrls said:
There are no annuity options with a DB pension.  If he has been offered annuity options, he has a DC pension.

My mistake, I thought "annuity" referred to any guaranteed yearly income for life. The paperwork does explicitly state that it's a defined benefit scheme. Now to try and find one of the few advisors who have not given up on providing transfer services.

I am considering MoneyHoney and Fidelity, and if anyone has had any success with either of these companies (or others) I'd love to hear your recommendations. Thanks!

Marcon

[Deleted User] said:

coyrls said:
There are no annuity options with a DB pension.  If he has been offered annuity options, he has a DC pension.

My mistake, I thought "annuity" referred to any guaranteed yearly income for life. The paperwork does explicitly state that it's a defined benefit scheme. Now to try and find one of the few advisors who have not given up on providing transfer services.

I am considering MoneyHoney and Fidelity, and if anyone has had any success with either of these companies (or others) I'd love to hear your recommendations. Thanks!

If you think the options being offered under his DB scheme (presumably with/without taking a tax free lump sum) aren't great, wait until you see how little the transfer value would buy if he had to buy an annuity on the open market.

AlanP_2

[Deleted User] said:

Thanks a lot for this thread guys - my dad is currently trapped in a DB scheme with pretty terrible annuity options and we've been looking to transfer out, but ever since the IFAs got cracked down on, half of them have stopped advising on this at all and the other half more or less state upfront that they're advising against it in 100% of cases. Clearly, this has nothing to do with the fact that they now get their full fee with zero liability if they advise against transferring. It looks like we're going to have to go the route of the insistent client. 

Cheers!

What are these terrible options, and why are they terrible?

I have a deferred DB that does not increase once in payment so plan on transferring it but that sort of thing is very unususal.

garmeg

AlanP_2 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Thanks a lot for this thread guys - my dad is currently trapped in a DB scheme with pretty terrible annuity options and we've been looking to transfer out, but ever since the IFAs got cracked down on, half of them have stopped advising on this at all and the other half more or less state upfront that they're advising against it in 100% of cases. Clearly, this has nothing to do with the fact that they now get their full fee with zero liability if they advise against transferring. It looks like we're going to have to go the route of the insistent client. 

Cheers!

What are these terrible options, and why are they terrible?

I have a deferred DB that does not increase once in payment so plan on transferring it but that sort of thing is very unususal.

Even that doesn't make it terrible. The lack of escalation would also be reflected in its transfer value (lower, potentially by a lot, than for an escalating pension) so you may not gain that much by transferring it.

Albermarle

Marcon said:

[Deleted User] said:

coyrls said:
There are no annuity options with a DB pension.  If he has been offered annuity options, he has a DC pension.

My mistake, I thought "annuity" referred to any guaranteed yearly income for life. The paperwork does explicitly state that it's a defined benefit scheme. Now to try and find one of the few advisors who have not given up on providing transfer services.

I am considering MoneyHoney and Fidelity, and if anyone has had any success with either of these companies (or others) I'd love to hear your recommendations. Thanks!

If you think the options being offered under his DB scheme (presumably with/without taking a tax free lump sum) aren't great, wait until you see how little the transfer value would buy if he had to buy an annuity on the open market.

Yes a lot of new posters on this subject vastly underestimate the actual cost of providing an inflation linked guaranteed income for life . I think at the moment £100K only buys less that £2.5 K pa .

AlanP_2

garmeg said:

AlanP_2 said:

debaser1920 said:

Thanks a lot for this thread guys - my dad is currently trapped in a DB scheme with pretty terrible annuity options and we've been looking to transfer out, but ever since the IFAs got cracked down on, half of them have stopped advising on this at all and the other half more or less state upfront that they're advising against it in 100% of cases. Clearly, this has nothing to do with the fact that they now get their full fee with zero liability if they advise against transferring. It looks like we're going to have to go the route of the insistent client. 

Cheers!

What are these terrible options, and why are they terrible?

I have a deferred DB that does not increase once in payment so plan on transferring it but that sort of thing is very unususal.

Even that doesn't make it terrible. The lack of escalation would also be reflected in its transfer value (lower, potentially by a lot, than for an escalating pension) so you may not gain that much by transferring it.

I absolutely agree, "terrible" is in the eye of the beholder like "beauty".

For us, with good local gov DB pensions, then the transfer works out but if this was our only DB income then I don't think we would even consider it.

CETV is lower than many quoted on here to reflect the terms as you indicate. £9k annual = £224k CETV (this months quote, and at age 61.5). Not terrible but not shooting the lights out either.

garmeg

AlanP_2 said:

garmeg said:

AlanP_2 said:

debaser1920 said:

Thanks a lot for this thread guys - my dad is currently trapped in a DB scheme with pretty terrible annuity options and we've been looking to transfer out, but ever since the IFAs got cracked down on, half of them have stopped advising on this at all and the other half more or less state upfront that they're advising against it in 100% of cases. Clearly, this has nothing to do with the fact that they now get their full fee with zero liability if they advise against transferring. It looks like we're going to have to go the route of the insistent client. 

Cheers!

What are these terrible options, and why are they terrible?

I have a deferred DB that does not increase once in payment so plan on transferring it but that sort of thing is very unususal.

Even that doesn't make it terrible. The lack of escalation would also be reflected in its transfer value (lower, potentially by a lot, than for an escalating pension) so you may not gain that much by transferring it.

I absolutely agree, "terrible" is in the eye of the beholder like "beauty".

For us, with good local gov DB pensions, then the transfer works out but if this was our only DB income then I don't think we would even consider it.

CETV is lower than many quoted on here to reflect the terms as you indicate. £9k annual = £224k CETV (this months quote, and at age 61.5). Not terrible but not shooting the lights out either.

That seems a decent CETV for a level pension.

xylophone

my dad is currently trapped in a DB scheme with pretty terrible annuity options 

Annuity options?

Are you able to give more details as this sounds rather odd  from a DB scheme.

Silvertabby

garmeg said:

AlanP_2 said:

garmeg said:

AlanP_2 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Thanks a lot for this thread guys - my dad is currently trapped in a DB scheme with pretty terrible annuity options and we've been looking to transfer out, but ever since the IFAs got cracked down on, half of them have stopped advising on this at all and the other half more or less state upfront that they're advising against it in 100% of cases. Clearly, this has nothing to do with the fact that they now get their full fee with zero liability if they advise against transferring. It looks like we're going to have to go the route of the insistent client. 

Cheers!

What are these terrible options, and why are they terrible?

I have a deferred DB that does not increase once in payment so plan on transferring it but that sort of thing is very unususal.

Even that doesn't make it terrible. The lack of escalation would also be reflected in its transfer value (lower, potentially by a lot, than for an escalating pension) so you may not gain that much by transferring it.

I absolutely agree, "terrible" is in the eye of the beholder like "beauty".

For us, with good local gov DB pensions, then the transfer works out but if this was our only DB income then I don't think we would even consider it.

CETV is lower than many quoted on here to reflect the terms as you indicate. £9k annual = £224k CETV (this months quote, and at age 61.5). Not terrible but not shooting the lights out either.

That seems a decent CETV for a level pension.

If Alan means his LGPS pension, it isn't.  It's fully (and I do mean fully, not capped at 5% like some) index linked for life, and spouse's pension, also for life.  Plus if Alan has some pre 2008 service, then his automatic lump sum would be reflected in the CETV as well.

Silvertabby

xylophone said:

my dad is currently trapped in a DB scheme with pretty terrible annuity options 

Annuity options?

Are you able to give more details as this sounds rather odd  from a DB scheme.

Usual grumble in respect of a DB scheme offering 'poor' returns is that the pensioner is a widow/widower and the children are too old to qualify for children's pensions.  That said, the 5 or 10 year guarantee (depends on scheme and date of leaving) means that the employee contributions are eventually repaid to the employee as a pension or to nominated beneficiaries as a death grant.