PCN received after 14 days...

IAmNotARobot

Apologies if a similar post has answered this question before - I did search to try and find the answer.


I as keeper received a PCN from ParkingEye with a letter some 2 months after a parking incident. Though the initial PCN was issued 9 days after the incident it was sent to a previous address as the details DVLA had were incorrect. In the letter ParkingEye state that they found my current address by using a credit reference agency. They also claim that 'they could not have reasonably known' my current address at the time the original parking charge notice was issued, however my thinking is as follows:

1. As a company dealing with such matters they know that some keeper details that DVLA hold will be incorrect.
2. They are not compelled to rely on DVLA info alone (as far as I know).
3. Given 1 and 2 they could have used the credit reference agency at the time DVLA returned the details to double check the address, that they didn't choose to do so is their fault.
4. Thus they could have 'reasonably' known the keeper was at another address in good time and so have failed to notify the keeper within 14 days as set out in Schedule 4, paragraph 9 (5) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (please note the PCN does make reference to POFA on the reverse so it should apply in this case).

Any thoughts about this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Redx

Appeal on their site as keeper using the blue text template

Then appeal to Popla including the POFA issues you identified, letting popla make that decision about the 14 day failure under POFA, it will be an interesting decision

I would be complaining to the retailer or landowner and getting it cancelled at source, regardless, because the appeal process is second stage, not first stage, plus appealing is not the only action to be taken

The_Deep

Read this thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

KeithP

Unless they got the keeper's details from the DVLA, they cannot use POFA to transfer the driver's liability to the keeper.

IAmNotARobot

Thanks for both responses.

Redx wrote: »

I would be complaining to the retailer or landowner and getting it cancelled at source

Since this incident was at a hospital a complaint was sent to PALS about a week ago but they haven't responded. Perhaps it wasn't worded right...

Redx wrote: »

because the appeal process is second stage, not first stage, plus appealing is not the only action to be taken

I understand but since PALS have made no reply (and may not do) I was beginning to think about the appeal stage and am interested to know what those more knowledgeable than me thought - especially if they thought something clearly in error.

Anyone any idea how long it takes for PALS to reply?

IAmNotARobot

KeithP wrote: »

Unless they got the keeper's details from the DVLA, they cannot use POFA to transfer the driver's liability to the keeper.

So does that mean if the DVLA details were wrong (for whatever reason) then there cannot ever be keeper liability?

Redx

Pals should definitley reply , chase them up and quote the guidelines at them


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

complain to the trust as well if PALS fail to reply

what KeithP is saying is that the PPC cannot hold the keeper liable under POFA, unless they comply with POFA

this is not the same as saying there is no keeper liability

a judge (or popla) will decide on keeper liability, but any PPC that fails POFA cannot use that law to their advantage , meaning that its likely they will fail

nobody is going to give you a 100% guarantee, because PE could try to prove that the keeper and driver are one and the same person, meaning they would not need POFA

so what KeithP has told you is that for POFA to apply, they need to get RK details from the DVLA, and adhere to all aspects of POFA

MEANING IF THEY USE ANY OTHER AGENCY, THEY LOSE POFA , negating your points 2) and 3)


you believe they have failed POFA timescales , regardless of what they said, its an interesting point to be tested at POPLA and/or in court

Johno100

IAmNotARobot wrote: »

So does that mean if the DVLA details were wrong (for whatever reason) then there cannot ever be keeper liability?

No, it means if they send the notice to the address obtained from the DVLA they have met one of the requirements needed under POFA to hold the keeper liable.

POFA has been around for nearly seven years now, don't you think if having the wrong address on your V5c was a 'golden ticket' to avoid keeper liability then everybody would be using the ruse and there'd be tumbleweed blowing through this forum?

IAmNotARobot

Redx wrote: »

so what KeithP has told you is that for POFA to apply, they need to get RK details from the DVLA, and adhere to all aspects of POFA

MEANING IF THEY USE ANY OTHER AGENCY, THEY LOSE POFA , negating your points 2) and 3)

Got it. This is what POFA paragraph 11 is concerned with... Thanks for making my error clear.

Redx wrote: »

you believe they have failed POFA timescales , regardless of what they said, its an interesting point to be tested at POPLA and/or in court

The facts appear to be then:

1) PE have on the face of it done everything right in regards to POFA.
2) Yet nevertheless I as keeper did not receive the notice within 14 days.

Redx

and Parking Eye are stating the only reason for that is your DVLA details were incorrect , otherwise they would have beaten the 14 day window

therefore its a conundrum for POPLA or a court , not a forum

KeithP

IAmNotARobot wrote: »

Yet nevertheless I as keeper did not receive the notice within 14 days.

I really don't think you can blame PE for you not living at the address you have registered with the DVLA.

Be a bit pragmatic. What do you think a judge might say?

Do you realise that the DVLA can hit you with a real fine of upto £1000 for failing to keep those records up to date.