Tenant or Lodger?

99hp99

Hello,

I moved into a property 3 months ago. It is a shared house of 4 rooms and legally I am a tenant. However the landlord has tried to give me an agreement which states that I am a lodger. Even though he does not live in the property.

Up until now that hasn’t really bothered me because I did not sign it. However he has recently had a problem with another tenant in the house and he moved back in to the house basically to bully her out. Once she was gone he moved back out. Obviously this is cause for concern.

I’m going to try to ask for a tenancy agreement which states I am a tenant. But what are the rules around a landlord moving back into his or her home? If you initially moved in as a tenant not a lodger does this still stand? Or does your tenancy revert to that of a lodger? The matter is further complicated by the fact the landlord is good friends with one of his tenants. Who could I’m assuming say the landlord has always lived in the property.

Thank you in advance for any replies. I’m going to work now so I won’t be able to respond until tomorrow.

Comms69

Why did the person leave?


If you just rent a room - A landlord can move into his or her property - obviously.


But if you all together rent the whole property on one contract, you can tell the landlord to leave.

99hp99

Yes. I just rent a room. We don't all together rent the property.

I'm not sure why the person left. They had a falling out of some sort.

So, if the landlord moves back in my agreement reverts to one of a lodger not a tenant?

sal_III

One of the "test" of lodger vs. tenant in the absence of a written contract is "Can you lock the door to your room?" If you can, you are generally a tenant, if you can't you are generally a lodger.

In any case, if the LL is using bullying tactics to evict tenants/lodgers semantics are not going to help you much if he decides to evict you and you find your belongings on the curb one day. Regardless whether the law is on your side or not.

If you have concerns about it, just vote with your wallet/feet and move out on your terms.

Comms69

99hp99 wrote: »

Yes. I just rent a room. We don't all together rent the property.

I'm not sure why the person left. They had a falling out of some sort.

So, if the landlord moves back in my agreement reverts to one of a lodger not a tenant?

No. You are still a tenant

Peter_Williams

Comms69 wrote: »

No. You are still a tenant

Correct.
It's whether the LL is resident when the lodger / tenant moves into the property that counts.

Council Tax / Electoral Register records should verify this.

In a 'standard' single let (non-HMO) a property owner landlord can actually become a lodger to their own tenant, if they move into the house they own.

zagubov

It sounds like you remain a tenant, but you might want to search out alternative accommodation ASAP.

Rightly or wrongly, it's not worth living with a bully.

theartfullodger

You are a tenant. Tenancy does not require anything in writing (but any landlord who doesn't provide paperwork is either stupid or on the fiddle (tax not declared, mortgage doesn't permit lettings etc etc).

Landlord will probably be unable to evict you if you keep paying rent. Pay by cheque or bank transfer.

Artful:. Landlord since 2000

muhandis

Looks like your landlord just might one of these...

It's great that you've come to the forum so hopefully will escape such a fate.

muhandis wrote: »

Unscrupulous landlords (not saying that you are one) do employ all sorts of trickery to label their tenants as lodgers. Also sometimes dodging HMO rules in the process.

The modus operandi (say for a 4 bed house) is that they have all their official correspondence directed to the house, pay council tax and bills, leave one room locked which contains personal possessions, leave personal possessions around the house and then rent out the remaining rooms under lodger "licenses" as opposed to the tenants that they are. They then abuse the lack of protection in the license to keep the deposit when the lodger leaves. Rinse and repeat using transient renters who are unlikely to know the law.

The landlord of course, has some place else to stay. I doubt they declare or pay taxes on the income either.

My cousin who was in Huddersfield as an overseas student got caught up in such a scam. I helped to take the landlord to small claims but we couldn't prove that he wasn't resident unfortunately. I grassed him to HMRC (assuming he doesn't declare the income) but don't know if that went anywhere or not.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you are contemplating any such thing, just that you need to be actually resident to have lodgers as opposed to tenants.

Peter_Williams

That scam relies on the LL having another unofficial residence with no paperwork linking them to it.

Yes, it's dodgy, but the lodgers / tenants are no worse off than if the LL was actually resident.

Like a lot of these dodgy practices, it relies on the perpetrator not upsetting anyone. It only takes one disgruntled occupier to start complaining to the council / HMRC / insurance company / mortgage lender etc and the LL is in trouble.

G_M

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/reporting-tax-evasion


https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do
£3 willgive you theproperty Title. Section 3will tell if /who is the mortgage provider.... who may or may not have allowed the property to be let to tenants.


4 tenants? may require an HMO licence - check your council website for their rules.


You're a tenant but if you ask about a tenancy agreement I suspect your LL will a) refuse and b) become angry. You'll achieve little but open a can of worms.


I'dmove out if /when you can and then use the links above.......