Multiple PNs & byelaws

bittheshed

Hi all,

I've been reading through all of the posts, and perhaps I am being an idiot, but nearly all of the posts are with regards to Parking Charges rather than Penalty Notices, I've not seen many about railway byelaws and just to add further confusion I think the date issued vs. date of contravention might come into play.

Today I received multiple Penalty Notice to Vehicle Owner from NCP via the post. The text reads:

The owner of the above vehicle is liable for a Penalty Notice (PN) of £100.00. This relates to the period of parking specified in this document, the Penalty having been incurred due to the following breach of the car park terms and conditions of use: Parked without holding a valid parking ticket, permit or season ticket and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the owner by clear signage referencing Railway Byelaws in and around the site [train station name] at the time of parking. This Penalty Notice is being issued under Clause 14 of the Railway Byelaws which can be viewed here [link to government website].

Payment is now required to the sum of £100.00 which must be paid no later than 28 days from the date the Penalty Notice is given. However, if payment is received within 14 days from the date this notice is given, then a reduced amount of £60.00 will be accepted in full and final settlement. Failure to pay may see the amount of the Penalty increase and further action taken against you, including prosecution via the Magistrates Court.
We, National Car Parks (EUK) Ltd, are the creditor.

All of the notices were issued on the same day, but range from 25-29 days (including weekends, not including the actual day of contravention) after the contravention.

So what are my options?
– Ignore, ignore, ignore
– Challenge the notices using the blue text/template from the newbies thread
– Cough up

Any help would be appreciated.

Egbert_Nobacon

Go to Advanced Search using Keywords - Railway Penalty Notice - and change the search as button from threads to posts.

Redx

AFAIK popla still deal with railway bylaws issues, so follow the appeal process as keeper using the blue text template to appeal, from the newbies faq sticky thread post 1

Then take it to popla, slowly doing it out past the 6 month deadline, because POFA cannot hold a keeper liable on railway station land, so the keeper has protections that the driver does not

Fruitcake

As above, appeal using the template in blue from the NEWBIES thread. If ANPR was used and the NTKs arrived after day 14, the date of the event being day zero, add a one liner that they have arrived too late for keeper liability to apply so they should contact the driver or owner, neither of whom will be named.

Do this around day 26 after receiving the NTKs. You need to drag this out to get past 6 months after which scammers are stuffed.

Coupon-mad

Please show us. This is the first PENALTY NOTICE I've seen from NCP, ever.

Are you SURE? if so, then it will mean no POPLA is available, and the good news is the penalty times out after 6 months because it cannot be paid before Magistrates after that period.

The_Deep

I've not seen many about railway byelaws

There are hundreds, search also for APCOA.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

bittheshed

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Please show us. This is the first PENALTY NOTICE I've seen from NCP, ever.

Are you SURE? if so, then it will mean no POPLA is available, and the good news is the penalty times out after 6 months because it cannot be paid before Magistrates after that period.

I'll scan one in on Monday, and remove the sensitive info then post up.

If it is NCP, do I even need to appeal?

bittheshed

As a new user, how do I post a picture of the notice? Apparently, I can't post with links.

Fruitcake

bittheshed wrote: »

As a new user, how do I post a picture of the notice? Apparently, I can't post with links.

Upload the redacted image to a web hosting site such as postimages, tinypic, dropbox etcetera, then paste the URL here but change https to hxxps. Someone here will change it back to a live link for you.

By the way, NCP are telling porkie pies.

The owner of the above vehicle is liable for a Penalty Notice (PN) of £100.00. This relates to the period of parking specified in this document, the Penalty having been incurred due to the following breach of the car park terms and conditions of use: Parked without holding a valid parking ticket, permit or season ticket and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the owner by clear signage referencing Railway Byelaws in and around the site [train station name] at the time of parking. This Penalty Notice is being issued under Clause 14 of the Railway Byelaws which can be viewed here [link to government website].

The owner MAY be liable. Since there has been no conviction in a magistrate's court then the use of the words "is liable" is a lie.

The position was confirmed by the DfT in a letter dated 18 February 2016. It says:
“no other person or body other than the Court is able to impose a penalty for breach of the Byelaws [including Byelaw 14 (1-3)] made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 (as amended) and made operational on 7 July 2005.”
This letter can be found at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/3110...e_passthrough=1

Secondly, if the owner was not in the car at the time of the relevant event, then alleged liability cannot possibly have been brought to the attention of the owner.
Ye canna change the laws of physics.

Coupon-mad

bittheshed wrote: »

As a new user, how do I post a picture of the notice? Apparently, I can't post with links.

Same as all the other newbies in all the other threads! Break the link.

bittheshed

Please put https:// before the below

img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/vaughnwinn/Misc/20190819101607.jpg