TFL Rail Penalty Charge Notice - Appeal rejected

BlueWagon

So, I had a penalty charge notice due to sufficient funds. I had a travel card from zone 2-4 and was travelling from london liverpool street to ilford. Carelessly forgetting I was in zone 1, i tapped out my oyster from liverpool street and it was obviously declined. Therefore, a member of staff told me I need to top up, i then topped up a minor amount about £3.00 but it was on negative before and now went to positive and my oyster was declined once again. The staff member asked me if my oyster was on negative, and it wasn’t so it’s what i told him. The staff member kindly just let me through the barriers via his pass and then these inspectors on the train came from nowhere .

The inspector just wasn’t listening to my side of the argument, so i couldn’t be bothered wasting energy on him. Anyways this is what i wrote in the appeal that got rejected:

Hello

Please accept this email as an appeal to the penalty charge notice. I was travelling from London Liverpool street station to Ilford station. Having forgotten that my oyster was from zone 2-4 and Liverpool street was within zone 1, I tapped out my oyster in Liverpool street and to my surprise the oyster was not processing. I then approached a member of staff in the station, who told me that I need to top up further as Liverpool street is in Zone 1.

As you can see from my transaction history, I topped up a minor amount (£3.00) on my oyster. I only topped up a small amount as my oyster was in between Zone 2-4 and Ilford is within the zones. I then tried to tap out of my oyster again from London Liverpool street and it seemed to have declined once again. Having explained this to the same member of staff outside of the Liverpool street station, he let me through the barriers by tapping out his card. He ought to have believed that there may have been something wrong with my oyster, so had let me through the barriers.

For further proof of the transaction history, you can check my oyster log on the day the incident occurred (08/07/2019). Additionally, London liverpool street station are secured with cameras and security which can be further assessed by TFL if needs be.

Kind Regards,

This was there response:

Thank you for your correspondence concerning the above referenced Penalty Fare Notice issued by TfL Rail on Monday 08 July 2019.
The Appeals Service (AS) is not associated with TfL Rail. AS provide a service which gives the recipient of a Penalty Fare Notice the opportunity to dispute the issue. To ensure consistency, AS follow a Code of Practice compliant with the criteria set out in the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 when making assessments of Penalty Fare Notice appeals.
All transport companies operating a Penalty Fare scheme display warning notices which advise transport users of their obligations and the potential consequences in failing to meet these.
The transport user is required to show on request a valid ticket.
When travelling beyond the validity of a travelcard using an Oyster card to Pay As You Go (PAYG), the transport user must ensure that adequate credit to cover their travel requirements is loaded to their Oyster card prior to travel.
On assessment your appeal has been declined.
Payment of £40.00 must be received within 14 days of the date of this letter. Full payment options and information including, what will happen if you do not pay, are detailed with this response.
Any further correspondence in relation to Penalty Fare XR1038574 should be marked 2nd TfL Rail appeal and be received within 14 days of the above date at: Compliance, Policing & On-street Services, Transport for London, 9G4 Palestra, 197 Blackfriars Road, Southwark, London SE1 8NJ, or online at Please also ensure that you clearly state the Penalty Fare Notice number on any correspondence.
Finally, as an appeals service which is independent of TfL Rail we are unable to investigate complaints concerning TfL Rail service or staff conduct. Please therefore contact TfL Rail direct with your requests and concerns.
Yours sincerely

I want to fight this, because i just don’t think it’s fair

Browntoa

Your fault. Not a valid ticket for zone 1.

Would have been easier to tap your contactless card for the journey

BlueWagon

But i topped up as well for zone 1

daveyjp

Railforums.co.uk is where you need to be for this type of query.

stragglebod

BlueWagon wrote: »

But i topped up as well for zone 1

After you started your journey.

Gravedigger

How did you manage to tap-in at Liverpool Street?

Mr_Singleton

Something fishy here!

Are you giving ALL the info/being truthful?

NBLondon

How did you get to Liverpool Street? You said you tapped out - suggesting that you were completing a journey and that journey took you into the negative. You then topped up putting you slightly positive but possibly that wasn't enough for the journey just completed. So at the second attempt when you were let through the barriers - you hadn't actually tapped in to start that journey (back to Ilford?) and that's what the inspector detected.

Maybe the gate operator at Liverpool Street made a mistake or misunderstood you but either way you made 2 journeys in Zone 1 and both of those are extra to your Zone 2-4 card.