When will the old Victorian houses start to fall down?

TadleyBaggie

My first senior school dated from the late 1800's, in the late 1960's we were relocated to a brand new school. By the 90's that school had to be demolished and rebuilt nearby, strangely the first school is still in use to this day.

Peter_Williams

TadleyBaggie wrote: »

My first senior school dated from the late 1800's, in the late 1960's we were relocated to a brand new school. By the 90's that school had to be demolished and rebuilt nearby, strangely the first school is still in use to this day.

Same with a lot of the massive council flats (eg Hulme Crescent etc).
I have relatives who worked as apprentices building them, then were supervising their demolition.
Didn't even last a working lifetime.

ka7e

Having recently sold a Victorian house after living in it for 35 years I can say it was getting to be hugely expensive to maintain. It seemed the fabric of the house was reaching a state where there was constantly something was deteriorating all over the house.
Behind the plaster was literally red dust - and something was reacting with painted surfaces. We had the whole kitchen replastered and 6 months later the paint was flaking off the walls and plaster was blowing again. No damp, no extra condensation, we had no lifestyle changes and yet the problem persisted.

The basement had originally been the kitchen and our kids had it as a playroom. It was perfectly tanked and dry. Over the past few years it had also deteriorated, plaster breaking down etc. We just came to the conclusion the house was no longer worth the continued effort, time and money for us to maintain and we sold it to some bright-eyed FTBs who loved the grand proportions and marble fireplaces and thought a bit of DIY would fix the house. Since we sold, we've spoken to 4 neighbours who have also moved out - they all said that they were glad to be off the treadmill of fixing stuff while waiting for something else to go wrong.
Everything has a finite life and I think many Victorian/Edwardian properties are not now conducive to modern lifestyles and expectations of comfort and energy conservation. The room sizes are usually great, but you have to heat 3 feet extra headroom to sit in a room with 10 foot high ceilings. Retrofitting insulation also means you risk lose character and period features. My husband loved the house and as a builder took great pride in keeping on top of maintenance, but even he had to admit we were flogging a dead horse by the time we came to sell!

G_M

My house was built in 1851 (or so it says in roman numerals above the door). Over the last 20 years I've maintained it structurally - mainly with complete re-pointing of the stone walls, replacing occassional slipped roof and ridge tiles, and improving under floor and attic ventilation to cure/prevent damp.


I have no reason to believe it won't last another 100 + years despite non-compliance with all sorts of current Building Regs including much too shallow foundations........

markin

terrence45 wrote: »

Quite a few cathedrals and castles are doing OK. Old things were built to last, new stuff is built to be thrown away quickly.

Im quite sure castles and cathedrals were built with deep foundations, whereas a 100 year old house is often very shallow.

Doozergirl

ka7e wrote: »

Having recently sold a Victorian house after living in it for 35 years I can say it was getting to be hugely expensive to maintain. It seemed the fabric of the house was reaching a state where there was constantly something was deteriorating all over the house.
Behind the plaster was literally red dust - and something was reacting with painted surfaces. We had the whole kitchen replastered and 6 months later the paint was flaking off the walls and plaster was blowing again. No damp, no extra condensation, we had no lifestyle changes and yet the problem persisted.

The basement had originally been the kitchen and our kids had it as a playroom. It was perfectly tanked and dry. Over the past few years it had also deteriorated, plaster breaking down etc. We just came to the conclusion the house was no longer worth the continued effort, time and money for us to maintain and we sold it to some bright-eyed FTBs who loved the grand proportions and marble fireplaces and thought a bit of DIY would fix the house. Since we sold, we've spoken to 4 neighbours who have also moved out - they all said that they were glad to be off the treadmill of fixing stuff while waiting for something else to go wrong.
Everything has a finite life and I think many Victorian/Edwardian properties are not now conducive to modern lifestyles and expectations of comfort and energy conservation. The room sizes are usually great, but you have to heat 3 feet extra headroom to sit in a room with 10 foot high ceilings. Retrofitting insulation also means you risk lose character and period features. My husband loved the house and as a builder took great pride in keeping on top of maintenance, but even he had to admit we were flogging a dead horse by the time we came to sell!

Any original plaster behind the decor in a Victorian house is now shot. It's completely dried out and lost its bond to the brickwork.

I wouldn't buy any Victorian house that hadn't been stripped back to brick in recent years without a vast discount.

I've been talking to a lovely couple for two years about their plans for the big Victorian house and gently trying to lead them away from the idea of a lovely big extension, to just renovating their house on their budget. They did go to an architect to design a house and they did go to other builders to get quotes for that extension. Fair enough, but I'm glad I didn't bother because we'd had quite lengthy conversations and I didn't believe it was the right option for them.

Full circle and there is no extension. My guys have spent the last month knocking their entire middle floor back to brick and piecing it back together, because that was the only genuine option. Every single wall was shot and came off in sheets.

You can, and we do, put back original features and recreate them, but the cost is indeed mind blowing - and impossible to estimate given what you then find behind the walls.
Original lead wiring still live :eek:
Capped off gas lights - still live and one of the pipes being used in place of a joist :eek:
Rotten wall plate from an ongoing roof leak.
Rotten floorboards from a poorly sealed shower.
Plumbing that ran the whole way up the house, before coming back down again, meaning an age for hot water to hit the shower.
Dead legs in the plumbing system from capped off bedroom sinks - a potential legionella risk.
Dodgy work from other very recent builders that did a loft conversion that needed propping up from underneath.

All great fun and completely unexpected to them. I don't know why surveys don't seem to highlight the plaster issue more as a massive priority - it's by far the largest cost of a renovation because of the knock on effect of removing plaster is effectively starting all over again with the house.

But it does set the house up to be a beautiful home for another century when you pay attention to the detail. It's just if you've paying full value - you're going to get stung on starting again or you are going to experience the ongoing maintenance issues that will be like painting the Forth Bridge.

Character means old, really. Victorian houses weren't built 'old'. They would have been shiny and new once upon a time. It's okay to do that to them again, but with insulation and kitchens, bathrooms and managed extraction this time around.

edgex

Doozergirl wrote: »

Rotten wall plate from an ongoing roof leak.
Rotten floorboards from a poorly sealed shower.
Plumbing that ran the whole way up the house, before coming back down again, meaning an age for hot water to hit the shower.
Dead legs in the plumbing system from capped off bedroom sinks - a potential legionella risk.
Dodgy work from other very recent builders that did a loft conversion that needed propping up from underneath.

All things that could equally be in pre-Vic or post-Vic properties as well.

A lot of 1930s semis are now at the point where they need gutting; new plumbing & electrics, better insulation, new windows (quite a bit of that aluminium dg about), new kitchen, new bathroom etc etc etc

Like Victorian & older properties that are still around, the basic materials aren't the issue.
Even a brand new brick-box house is unlikely to have issue with the materials, it's the design details & workmanship that causes the problems.

Doozergirl

edgex wrote: »

All things that could equally be in pre-Vic or post-Vic properties as well.

A lot of 1930s semis are now at the point where they need gutting; new plumbing & electrics, better insulation, new windows (quite a bit of that aluminium dg about), new kitchen, new bathroom etc etc etc

Like Victorian & older properties that are still around, the basic materials aren't the issue.
Even a brand new brick-box house is unlikely to have issue with the materials, it's the design details & workmanship that causes the problems.

There's barely a house in the country that doesn't have a ridiculous bodge behind the facade.

Ignorance is bliss, though

Peter_Williams

Doozergirl wrote: »

Any original plaster behind the decor in a Victorian house is now shot. It's completely dried out and lost its bond to the brickwork.

I wouldn't buy any Victorian house that hadn't been stripped back to brick in recent years without a vast discount.

Full circle and there is no extension. My guys have spent the last month knocking their entire middle floor back to brick and piecing it back together, because that was the only genuine option. Every single wall was shot and came off in sheets.


All great fun and completely unexpected to them. I don't know why surveys don't seem to highlight the plaster issue more as a massive priority - it's by far the largest cost of a renovation because of the knock on effect of removing plaster is effectively starting all over again with the house.

Character means old, really. Victorian houses weren't built 'old'. They would have been shiny and new once upon a time. It's okay to do that to them again, but with insulation and kitchens, bathrooms and managed extraction this time around.

Sorry, piecing what back together again?
Surely you just need to knock the plaster off the wall, take it back to brick and then either replaster wet or fix plaster boards?
Are the bricks coming away as you knock off the plaster?

Doozergirl

Peter_Williams wrote: »

Sorry, piecing what back together again?
Surely you just need to knock the plaster off the wall, take it back to brick and then either replaster wet or fix plaster boards?
Are the bricks coming away as you knock off the plaster?

No. You've misunderstood my wording. We've taken it back to brick and are piecing the house back together.

It's alright, I actually get paid for this for a living!