Parkingeye POPLA appeal

leecoopertrainers

Hi all,

New poster but have read the sticky, and a few example threads and appeals.
Unfortunately I didn't find this forum until after I'd sent my initial appeal, so checking to see whether I should go ahead with the POPLA appeal, as not sure about the grounds for it.

I received a PCN from parkingeye for an overstay of 17 minutes. I now know that on the grace period points in the BPA CoP I can argue that 20 mins is acceptable, however looking at my receipt from the day, it took me 4 mins to pay, which leaves 13 on the way out.

In my very short online appeal I explained that it had taken me a few minutes to pay as I needed to get change to pay, and on the way out I was held up by: other departing cars obstructing the exit, and also sent a photo of the receipt.

I don't think I have grounds other than the grace period, but given I'm over the 10, is it worth it? I typed straight into the online appeals box so don't have my initial appeal to hand, but I think I wrote in first person and thus would have given away that I was the driver at the time.

Regards,
Alex

The_Deep

I don't think I have grounds other than the grace period,

What about signs? They are rubbish. Read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164

and get your MP on board as nine times out of ten these tickets are scams.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Coupon-mad

Hi Alex,

Try the landowner complaint first. Where was this?

leecoopertrainers

The_Deep wrote: »

I don't think I have grounds other than the grace period,

What about signs? They are rubbish. Read this


and get your MP on board as nine times out of ten these tickets are scams.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.


Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Given I bought the ticket a few mins after arriving, what is my play about the signage? I thought that given I'd purchased it I'd presumably read the signs and entered into an agreement? I don't have the ability to return back there either to examine.

leecoopertrainers

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Hi Alex,

Try the landowner complaint first. Where was this?

I'm not sure who I would need to complain to tbh.. It was at 6 Beaconsfield Road Southall, a very small car park (a few parking spots) next to an industrial park with some builders depot.

Quentin

leecoopertrainers wrote: »

Given the driver bought the ticket a few mins after arriving, what is my play about the signage? I thought that the driver presumably read the signs and entered into an agreement? I don't have the ability to return back there either to examine.

All explained in the newbies FAQ thread

Your individual circumstances don't matter,.

Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving

Assuming that the ppc do not know who was driving You need to edit your post to remove details of who was driving

The_Deep

what is my play about the signage?

That it is unreasonable to expect someone to read and agree those T&C before parking a car.

They are too long, too complicated, the print is too small. too high, unpunctuated, there is no shelter, and anything else you can think of.

leecoopertrainers

I've drafted a popla appeal, comments appreciated:

POPLA Verification Code:
XXXXXXX
Vehicle Registration:
XXXXXXX

I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated X acting as a notice to the registered keeper. My appeal to the Operator ParkingEye was submitted and acknowledged by the Operator on X and rejected via an email dated X. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:

1. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice non compliance, 2. No Evidence of Period Parked - NtK does not meet PoFA 2012 requirements.

The NtK states Time in Car Park X hours 17 minutes. A ticket was purchased for X hours stay, so I presume the PCN is being charged for the 17 minutes overstay. However as the purchased ticket shows, it took 4 minutes to be in a position to purchase the parking, giving 2 hours from that time, which would amount to 13 minutes overstay if the vehicle was parked for that duration. However the vehicle was not parked for that period due to obstructions to the exit. The NtK fails to show evidence of this overstay.

1. Grace Period: BPA Code of Practice non compliance

The BPA’s Code of Practice states (13) that there are two grace periods: one
at the end (of a minimum of 10 minutes) and one at the start. BPA’s Code of Practice (13.1) states that:
“Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters
your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a
reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking
charge notice.”

BPA’s Code of Practice (13.2) states that:
“You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide
if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land
without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs
and leave before you take enforcement action.”

BPA’s Code of Practice (13.4) states that:
“You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car
park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement
action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the
Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10
minutes. ”

BPA’s Code of Practice (18.5)
states that:
“If a driver is parking with your permission, they must have the chance to
read the terms and conditions before they enter into the contract with you.
If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave
the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to
leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.”

The BPA Code of Practice (13.4) clearly states that the Grace Period to leave the
car park should be a minimum of 10 minutes.
Whilst 13.4 does not apply in this case (it should be made clear a contract was never entered in to), it is
reasonable to suggest that the minimum of 10 minutes grace period stipulated
in 13.4 is also a “reasonable grace period” to apply to 13.1 and 13.2 of the BPA’s
Code of Practice.

Kelvin Reynolds, Head of Public Affairs and Policy at the British Parking Association (BPA):
“The BPA’s guidance specifically says that there must be sufficient time for the motorist to park their car, observe the signs, decide whether they want to comply with the operator’s conditions and either drive away or pay for a ticket.”

“No time limit is specified. This is because it might take one person five minutes, but another person 10 minutes depending on various factors, not limited to disability.”

Finally, some 3 years ago years ago, on 30th July 2015, the minutes of the
Professional Development & Standards Board meeting show that it w
as formally agreed by the Board (of BPA members and stakeholders) that the minimum
grace period would be changed in 13.4 of the BPA Code of Practice to read 'a
minimum of eleven minutes':
“Implications of the 10 minute grace period were discussed and the Board
agreed with suggestion by AH that the clause should comply with DfT
guidelines in the English book of bylaws to encourage a single standard.
Board agreed that as the guidelines state that grace periods need to exceed 10 minutes clause 13.4 should be amended to reflect a mandatory 11 minute grace period
.
”The recommendation reads:“ Reword Clause 13.4 to ‘If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be
a minimum of 11 minutes.”

As stated earlier in this section, whilst 13.4 does not apply in this case (as a
contract was never entered in to), it is not un reasonable to suggest that clarification of this time period in relation to 13.4 also goes some way to clarifying the terms
“reasonable period ”and “reasonable grace period” stated in 13.1 and 13.2 respectively of the BPA’s Code of Practice


2. No Evidence of Period Parked - NtK does not meet PoFA 2012 requirements

Contrary to the mandatory provisions of the BPA Code of Practice, there is no record to show that the vehicle was parked versus attempting to read the terms and conditions before deciding against parking/entering into a contract.

There is also no record to show that the vehicle was parked until the time departure time. Given the small size of the car park and the inability for cars to both enter and exit at the same time, and the fact that the exit was being obstructed by departing cars and a large group of boys, the exit of the car park was delayed until the time of departure shown on the NtK, despite the vehicle having its handbrake removed and departure attempted many minutes before this was the case.

Furthermore, PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 paragraph 9 refers at numerous times to
the “period of parking”. Most notably, paragraph 9(2)(a) requires the NtK to:
“specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking
to which the notice relates;”

The NtK simply states “Time in Car Park: X”, separately states “Arrival time” X” and “
Departure time: X”, and separately states “On X vehicle X entered the 6 Beaconsfield Road, Southall car park at X and departed at X”

At no stage do Euro Car Parks explicitly specify the “period of parking to which the
notice relates”, as required by PoFA 2012.

By virtue of the nature of an ANPR system recording only entry and exit times, ParkingEye
are not able to definitively state the period of parking. I require ParkingEye to provide evidence to show the vehicle in question was parked on the date/time (for the duration claimed) and at the location stated in the NtK.

fustybuckets123

I've only skimmed your appeal text but one thing that immediately jumps out is that you name two separate parking companies: I presume you will want to replace mention of Euro Car Parks with ParkingEye!

Mark2spark

I would state that you purchased the parking ticket, AND THEN tried to find somewhere to park.
Ask for photographic evidence that contradicts this (possibly using SAR).