Driver details revealed, PCM asking for evidence if the driver is permited to drive the vehicle

StanNS

Hello.
I do apologize for starting a new treat as you look quite overwhelmed, but need some expert advise, if possible, please.
As register keeper, my girlfriend has received a PCN from PCM.

She has revealed the driver details, but as the driver at that time was a visiting relative, she provided her overseas address.
Unfortunately, now the PCM has sent a replay asking her to provide evidence that the person she named was driving the vehicle on that date and for evidence demonstrating that they were permitted to drive her vehicle.
She is a bit confused and quite worried about this situation.
Does she have any legal obligations to provide them with any evidence and do they have any legal rights to ask for evidence and if the driver was permitted to drive?

I think, that by providing the driver details and a serviceable address, in this case abroad one, she has to be discharged from any liability for the parking offense?


Any help will be much appreciated!

MistyZ

Which Parking Company is it?

I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be surprised if the PPC has any grounds on which to demand evidence that the driver named was driving / permitted to drive. For a start, how on earth can anyone prove that x was driving on any given date?? And as for permission, that has nothing to do with the PPC either, they're not the police!

It sounds to me like harassment. The PPCs excel at that. Deterred by the cost & complexity of pursuing a driver who lives abroad (good!), they're turning their attention back to the Keeper on some pretext. That's my best bet but I'll be interested to hear what others say.

StanNS

Thanks for your post MistyZ
I think this is a clear harassment too.

The company is PCM ( Parking control management (UK) Ltd. )
They are not the police or even an insurance company to ask if the driver has been permitted to drive. It has nothing to do with so called parking offense.

Kilroy62

Hi

This is a process used with tickets, the fine lies with the registered keeper unless culpability accepted by driver. You can argue and plead the case but as it is a civil matter they will take it to court unless paid.
With respects to the release of data and authority, they can ask and you can choose to answer or not. If you do not then they can interpret that as you are accepting the fault.


As a way forward you can offer to send this on to the visitor and request them to respond and copy this to them. You have then done your best to resolve and it is between them and the visitor.


Frankly they can hound you and hit you with a lot of costs - you can also argue and appeal and take to the ombudsman where you ahve a good chance of having it recinded but only if you release the information they are requesting from you about the driver (permission is not relevent but contact for them is) so its your choice - Anyone can claim they were not driving and it was someone else and many do - Remember the case of the Liberal MP and his Economist wife.

BrownTrout

You are under no obligation to provide proof of anything. That is the problem with providing a foreign address. You should have provided your own with their name.
Keep a copy of your letter. I would simply write to them again and tell them you complied with POFA 2012 and then just ignore them. If you get a court claim it would be easily defendable

Umkomaas

Kilroy62 wrote: »

Hi

This is a process used with tickets, the fine lies with the registered keeper unless culpability accepted by driver. You can argue and plead the case but as it is a civil matter they will take it to court unless paid.
With respects to the release of data and authority, they can ask and you can choose to answer or not. If you do not then they can interpret that as you are accepting the fault.


As a way forward you can offer to send this on to the visitor and request them to respond and copy this to them. You have then done your best to resolve and it is between them and the visitor.


Frankly they can hound you and hit you with a lot of costs - you can also argue and appeal and take to the ombudsman where you ahve a good chance of having it recinded but only if you release the information they are requesting from you about the driver (permission is not relevent but contact for them is) so its your choice - Anyone can claim they were not driving and it was someone else and many do - Remember the case of the Liberal MP and his Economist wife.

The above contains inaccuracies.

This is not a fine!

By providing the name and address for service of the driver, you have discharged any liability under PoFA 2012. It is now for the PPC to issue a postal Notice to Driver and take it up with him/her. It is irrelevant to keeper liability whether or not permission to drive was given.

If the driver doesn't respond, then the PPC might return to the keeper, so if/when a Notice from the PPC is received a simple acknowledgement of receipt (at the address abroad) with the initial appeal template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 should be sent by the driver.

There is no access to the ombudsman service (POPLA), as the PPC is a member of the IPC. Second tier appeals for IPC operators is to the woeful IAS, where losing is almost all but guaranteed.

Costs in the civil court are heavily capped, on average generally running around £175 - £200.

Tell the PPC to contact the driver - you have given them that information as per The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) - and to take up this charge with them. Their failure to do so followed by any further harassment of the keeper, will result in a complaint being made to the DVLA, with a request that if they cannot follow the law (PoFA) and deal with this correctly, they should not be allowed to have future access to sensitive registered Keeper data.

Write to your MP - enlist their help.

https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/

Fruitcake

The driver should contact the PPC and tell them they were driving the vehicle on the date of the alleged event.
This satisfies the requirements of the PoFA 2012 with regards to the driver's details being "known".

Just telling the scammers the driver's details does not satisfy this requirement otherwise anyone receiving a PCN could give another person's details, real or made up.

As far as I am aware, no PPC has ever asked any other driver if they were permitted to drive the vehicle. They scammers are quick enough to quote a post on here or a comment about correspondence received that the driver's identity has been revealed. I see no reason why they should need to know now.

I do not believe that confirming the driver had permission to drive the vehicle is a requirement of the PoFA, so the scammers have no right to this information.
It's no different to scammers asking for the driver's identity. They can ask but there is no law in the land compelling a anyone to reveal this. I believe the same applies for many other types of information including permission to drive.

In any case, what if the driver didn't have permission? So what?
In a case of TWOCing, the driver is still liable for their actions.

The_Deep

Indeed, get her MP on board as nine times out of ten these tickets are scams.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Umkomaas

Know your PPC!

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html