Salary Overpayment - Court Claim

Bumblebee1814

Hi All.

In need of some advice.

I worked for the NHS and my employment ended August 2011.

Fast forward to January 2013 when I was contacted by my previous NHS employers stating that I was overpaid nearly £2800!

I was in a state of shock. I honestly don’t remember being overpaid and couldn’t locate any bank statements at the time. So while I was busy searching I agreed to repay £20 a month.

Found out later that I was apparently overpaid in September and October. I didn’t really question it and carried on repaying.

Around this time I was in a really big financial mess and personal things didn’t really question the overpayment as I should and just acknowledged that I owed it as they said.

In November 2016 I decided I needed to get my finances in shape and started looking at things more closely.

I got advice and contacted the NHS for more information. They gave me the payslips which include payments for travel expenses.

They said they want the Net figure but not sure what the tax position is. They also state that the P45 was adjusted to not include the overpayment.

I’ve asked for the bank account they paid this into but they’ve refused to provide it saying that it’s the account I gave to to at the time. However the accounts I had at the time I have now closed. And the banks have said that as it’s been more that 6 years I can’t access account information.

I also queried the travel expenses as a valid claim form would have to be attached. But again they have refused to provide it.

They say that my manager notified HR late of my resignation; however won’t tel me when they were notified and why it took over 2 months.

I’ve only repaid about £450 with the last payment in 2016. I couldn’t keep up with the payment plan due to my ongoing debt problems etc. I’ve gone back and forth with the trust and their position is that I need to repay because I agreed to.

When I made a formal complaint they said they made an error and increased the debt by a further £250.

They now issued a claim asking for legal fees and interest.

Would be grateful for any advice.

Bumblebee1814

Sorry just to add that I moved home in December 2011 so didn’t receive any correspondence re overpayment until January 2013. When I asked what attempts they made to contact me apparently they contacted me in September 2012 sending me an invoice to my old address.

They only managed to contact me in January 2013 when they called me on my mobile.

steampowered

As legal proceedings have been issued you would be better off posting this on the consumer action group forum than here.

You will need to post the exact wording of the particulars of claim before anyone can help you.

As much over the overpayment was more than six years ago, it may be that the trust is statute barred under the Limitation Act 1980 from bringing a claim. You would have to plead that in your Defence though.

It is also possible that you might have restarted the 6 year clock by acknowledging the debt in writing. Again, this is the kind of detail which dictates whether you have a valid defence or not, and is why people need the exact particulars of claim before they can comment.

Also, you must be mindful of the deadlines on the form. If you miss the deadline for filing a defence, a CCJ will be issued against you automatically.

Comms69

Bumblebee1814 wrote: »

Hi All.

In need of some advice.

I worked for the NHS and my employment ended August 2011.

Fast forward to January 2013 when I was contacted by my previous NHS employers stating that I was overpaid nearly £2800!

I was in a state of shock. I honestly don’t remember being overpaid and couldn’t locate any bank statements at the time. So while I was busy searching I agreed to repay £20 a month.

Found out later that I was apparently overpaid in September and October. I didn’t really question it and carried on repaying.

Around this time I was in a really big financial mess and personal things didn’t really question the overpayment as I should and just acknowledged that I owed it as they said.

In November 2016 I decided I needed to get my finances in shape and started looking at things more closely.

I got advice and contacted the NHS for more information. They gave me the payslips which include payments for travel expenses.

They said they want the Net figure but not sure what the tax position is. They also state that the P45 was adjusted to not include the overpayment.

I’ve asked for the bank account they paid this into but they’ve refused to provide it saying that it’s the account I gave to to at the time. However the accounts I had at the time I have now closed. And the banks have said that as it’s been more that 6 years I can’t access account information.

I also queried the travel expenses as a valid claim form would have to be attached. But again they have refused to provide it.

They say that my manager notified HR late of my resignation; however won’t tel me when they were notified and why it took over 2 months.

I’ve only repaid about £450 with the last payment in 2016. I couldn’t keep up with the payment plan due to my ongoing debt problems etc. I’ve gone back and forth with the trust and their position is that I need to repay because I agreed to.

When I made a formal complaint they said they made an error and increased the debt by a further £250.

They now issued a claim asking for legal fees and interest.

Would be grateful for any advice.

But if they've issued legal proceedings they'll need to provide evidence of the claim. Which is all you're asking for?


So in writing say as much.

shortcrust

Comms69 wrote: »

But if they've issued legal proceedings they'll need to provide evidence of the claim. Which is all you're asking for?


So in writing say as much.

But aren't the payslips/payroll info all the evidence they need and all the evidence they could be expected to have? The OP not having bank statements for the period in question isn't a problem for the employer.

I can't see how it's statute barred given than the OP was making repayments up to 2016.

OP - I don't really see that you have any option other than trying to arrange a new repayment plan to stop it going to count. I think you're clutching at straws with the bank statements. You've previously acknowledged the debt by making repayments and there's no reason to think that the money mysteriously didn't reach your account simply because you haven't got the bank statements.

Manxman_in_exile

Hmmm... having been on the wrong end of an NHS overpayment myself and having worked in an NHS Finance Department, I'm surprised that it took them such a long time to realise that you'd been overpaid, especially if it was as a result of your manager not notifying payroll that you were leaving.


Did you originally (or have you recently) asked them for a breakdown of the overpayment? And I mean an actual detailed breakdown - depending on how well you can read a payslip I don't think just supplying copy payslips is enough for you to check.


Having said that, I think the best advice is from shortcrust that you need to try to speak to them and arrange a new repayment plan. At the same time I'd also ask for a breakdown of the overpayment calculation again.


You could also follow steampowered's advice and go to consumer action group. If the trust has already started proceedings you don't want to end up getting a default judgment against you because you've missed court deadlines on acknowledgement of service or lodging a defence (if you have one).


https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/305-general-legal-issues/


EDIT: Read #3 again.

Bumblebee1814

Hi all thanks for the replies.

I will post on CAG for further advice.

Just to clarify I actually can’t remember if I was overpaid. Around that time I started studying as a student nurse and received payments from NHS Bursary and Student Finance around the same time as the alleged overpayments.

When the NHS first contact re overpayment I didn’t put much effort into getting any info and agreed to make payments.

They’ve emailed me payslips for those months. They basically want the net pay minus travel expenses.

I queried why I would’ve been paid travel expenses as any claim would need to have a signed claim form from manager. So I requested copies of the travel expenses form. They’ve refused to provide.

I also queried the tax and NI and was told they informed HMRC of my salary up until August 2011 and the P45 would also reflect this. I didn’t pay into a pension at the time.

They claim that the overpayment was due to late notification from my manager. But when I asked the date they were notified again they’ve refused to say.

Quick question if I contact them about repayment does that stop court proceedings? Also who do I contact the NHS Trust, Debt Collection Agency or the Solicitors?

Also I’m on part time wages and a single mother I can’t afford more that £20 a month does that seem reasonable or will I be forced to pay more?

Comms69

Bumblebee1814 wrote: »

Hi all thanks for the replies.

I will post on CAG for further advice.

Just to clarify I actually can’t remember if I was overpaid. Around that time I started studying as a student nurse and received payments from NHS Bursary and Student Finance around the same time as the alleged overpayments.

When the NHS first contact re overpayment I didn’t put much effort into getting any info and agreed to make payments.

They’ve emailed me payslips for those months. They basically want the net pay minus travel expenses.

I queried why I would’ve been paid travel expenses as any claim would need to have a signed claim form from manager. So I requested copies of the travel expenses form. They’ve refused to provide.

I also queried the tax and NI and was told they informed HMRC of my salary up until August 2011 and the P45 would also reflect this. I didn’t pay into a pension at the time.

They claim that the overpayment was due to late notification from my manager. But when I asked the date they were notified again they’ve refused to say.

Quick question if I contact them about repayment does that stop court proceedings? Also who do I contact the NHS Trust, Debt Collection Agency or the Solicitors?

Also I’m on part time wages and a single mother I can’t afford more that £20 a month does that seem reasonable or will I be forced to pay more?

Speak to the trust. You owe them (not the DCA or the solicitors) the money.

Manxman_in_exile

I would post on CAG as soon as you can. You've not given any details of the date of service of the claim etc so you need to make sure you don't miss any court deadlines. The posters on there are very good at explaining court procedures and explaining what you need to do in terms of submitting court forms etc. The link I gave above is to their general legal forum but they also have a legal board that deals with debt issues. In your post ask if you are on the right board and they'll move it if not.


One question, have you actually received a claim or is it a letter before action? If it's a claim, did you get a letter before action prior to that?


Don't tell me the answer, but make sure you have all details for CAG. As in post #3 they'll want to know the details of the particulars of claim so they can advise appropriately. It would also be helpful to give them a chronological timeline of what has happened. (eg I was employed by the NHS from---- to

---

. XX months later they told me I'd been overpaid--- I started repaying on

---

I stopped on

---

They contacted me again in---- etc etc. Now I've received a court claim from

---

. Include all the detail you can. It's better to include something that may be irrelevant than to miss out something that may be relevant).


A couple of things to think about: you've mentioned travel expenses a couple of times and that they can't provide a copy of your claim form. But you've also said they aren't asking you to repay the travel expenses. Am I misunderstanding? Also, if you dropped out of nurse training, have you had to repay the bursary? (I can't remember if the bursary was repayable in those circumstances, but it may be an added complication. I'm sure if it was repayable you would have known about it by now.)


I don't know if you can halt action by contacting the trust (they may say it's now in the hands of the debt collectors) but I can't see any harm in trying. I would also ask for a detailed breakdown of the overpayment. Contact their finance dept and/or payroll for the breakdown and ask to speak to someone who deals with salary overpayments.

Manxman_in_exile

Comms69 wrote: »

Speak to the trust. You owe them (not the DCA or the solicitors) the money.

If I were the OP and had received a court claim from anyone to whom the debt may have been assigned, I'd want to be sure I was dealing with it appropriately. I wouldn't necessarily want to rely on the trust to stop the claim.


EDIT: from my own experience and from what the OP has said, this trust does not seem to be on the ball to me. I can see lots of things potentially going wrong!