SVS Securities - shut down?

pafpcg

bowlhead99 said:

manorhouse said:

Why is this taking so long ?

Why do the same people keep asking why it is taking so long?

A large number of the 1000+ posts on the thread are people explaining to impatient former SVS clients why it's a process that takes time, providing both technical and layman explanations of what is going on and giving references or links to the various official responses and updates provided by the administrators.

I expect that - similar to how SVS clients are growing tired of waiting for a transfer of assets to be concluded which allows them access to their holdings once again - the other forum members are growing tired of having the same people come back and bump the thread by saying they don't know why is taking time, as if they had never asked or been answered before.

The Special Administrators provided a 50-page progress report on their dedicated site on the afternoon of Thursday 27th, which was linked a few posts up the thread, and you're back on Friday 28th to ask why it's taking time? If the report left you none the wiser, why not give them a call and see what they say?

I don't doubt that the whole process is complicated and time-consuming.  The details of the issues involved are way beyond my skills and I understand that I'm not competent to decide what would be a reasonable period for this process to be completed.  BUT, I would expect that the Special Administrators would, after having spent a few weeks examining the situation, have the skills and experience to predict with confidence how long it would take.  Therefore my grumble is not what seems like an inordinate period of time before we can regain access to our assets, but the false expectations given by the administrators.  The initial prediction was early this year (Jan-March 2020), then we were led to expect April-May, and now we are told it'll not be until secord or third quarter - September?!

"The Special Administrators provided a 50-page progress report on their dedicated site on the afternoon of Thursday 27th, which was linked a few posts up the thread, and you're back on Friday 28th to ask why it's taking time? If the report left you none the wiser, why not give them a call and see what they say?" 
No, please don't!  Unless you have a non-trivial question for which you need an answer to be able to make some immediate decision and for which there is nothing apparent in the existing documentation, please don't call them - it just racks up the chargeable hours and inflates the size of the Administration to justify their claims of the scale and complexity of the project.

masonic

pafpcg said:

I would expect that the Special Administrators would, after having spent a few weeks examining the situation, have the skills and experience to predict with confidence how long it would take.

It is quite surprising that, given where we are in the process, the estimate has become considerably more vague. There is mention of anticipating going to court during April, which sounds as though they don't yet have court date, which could slow things down. The nominated broker will be getting towards the end of their exclusivity period and we might get some further insight into the change of timescale when there is further news around this. Could it be, for example, that the prospective nominated broker has recently become caught up in some corporate restructuring?

The other point from the progress report was that there were imbalances in both client assets and client monies, and it sounds like a few poor souls have had their investments sold off and the proceeds stolen. Another interesting statistic is that:

"250 Clients have raised a dispute in relation to their Custody Asset and/or Client Money account holdings.  Where a dispute was recorded, the Administrators undertook a detailed investigation  exercise  and  liaised  with  the  relevant  Clients  regarding  the  position  and/or  the  need  for  further evidence.  In most instances, the disputes have been resolved and the Client has subsequently agreed their claim. There are currently nearly 90 disputes that are yet to be agreed.If an agreement cannot be reached with those Clients, the Administrators will proceed with a dispute resolution process in accordance with the Distribution Plan or the methodology for distribution of Client Money (as applicable), once approved by the Court..."

It doesn't seem to me that this would have been unanticipated though. I also noted the FX traders didn't seem particularly engaged in the bar date process.

pafpcg said:

No, please don't!  Unless you have a non-trivial question for which you need an answer to be able to make some immediate decision and for which there is nothing apparent in the existing documentation, please don't call them - it just racks up the chargeable hours and inflates the size of the Administration to justify their claims of the scale and complexity of the project.

According to the progress report, the Administrators' client service team has already received over 4,500 inbound phone calls from clients and responded to nearly 3,000 emails from clients. I'll refrain from making the obvious joke.

Costs have now reached 1.8% of assets, meaning those with over £4.7m invested in SVS are now at risk of the FSCS not picking up the whole tab in respect of their share of costs. Even assuming this drags on for another 6 months at the same intensity, it looks as those with less than £2m invested can sleep soundly at night.

bowlhead99

pafpcg said:

bowlhead99 said:

manorhouse said:

Why is this taking so long ?

The Special Administrators provided a 50-page progress report on their dedicated site on the afternoon of Thursday 27th, which was linked a few posts up the thread, and you're back on Friday 28th to ask why it's taking time? If the report left you none the wiser, why not give them a call and see what they say?

No, please don't!  Unless you have a non-trivial question for which you need an answer to be able to make some immediate decision and for which there is nothing apparent in the existing documentation, please don't call them - it just racks up the chargeable hours and inflates the size of the Administration to justify their claims of the scale and complexity of the project.

Of course, I doubt that you would really find out a satisfactory answer to why it is taking a long time ,during a short phone call, if you weren't satisfied by the 50 page report that they released after careful consideration of its content and wording. So, it is not really worth phoning them up, though it's doubtful that dealing with your call would cause further material cost or delay in the grand scheme of things. 

The point was rather, if you are not satisfied with the answers on why it is taking time that are provided by the people doing the administration, don't ask *us* why it is taking time, because we are not the people doing the administration, and we've already told you to the best of our abilities (or as far as we can be bothered, which for some kind souls is more than the rest of us).

johnburman

The Creditors Committee should do the asking....no DEMANDING acton.  they need ot speed up the process

masonic

johnburman said:

The Creditors Committee should do the asking....no DEMANDING acton.  they need ot speed up the process

Have you contacted any of the members of the creditors' committee? Do you think any of them are following this thread? As to whether the creditors' committee actually should be doing anything, or whether they can do anything to speed up the process, they'd be in a better position to know than you. I suspect their opinion would differ.

Monsieur_Bourse

Why on earth are people attacking johnburman on this forum. I totally agree with his comments. First we were told somewhere around April/May now we have been informed in could drag on to bloody September! It seems to be nice work if you can get it for administrators in the UK. I am sure we have all seen the value of our portfolios disappear down the pan this week, without being able to do a thing about it. I personally saw a 4 bagger, which was up there on thin air totally collapse without being able to take any profit, and on Tuesday another one of my shares doubled only to fall back to earth again by Friday.

What on earth would be the point of telephoning or e-mailing LC, asking as to why things are taking so long, as some has suggested on this forum, just to be fobbed off with some generic reply.

Sadly to trade in equities we are obliged to deal with all the sharks in the financial industry, something that really pains me. At best when trying to invest we are up against crooks and computers, and then when your broker goes into administration we are not even allowed to do that.

city_of_angels

Monsieur_Bourse said:

Sadly to trade in equities we are obliged to deal with all the sharks in the financial industry, something that really pains me. At best when trying to invest we are up against crooks and computers, and then when your broker goes into administration we are not even allowed to do that.

I would agree that we are to a large extent up against crooks and computers. The only answer to that is not to trade, or at least to trade as rarely as possible. I would assume that every time I buy or sell, I am trading against somebody who may know more than me, and therefore that I am losing a little each time (perhaps only a fraction of a percent, on average, but something). Hence, if I insist on buying individual shares (which I do, perhaps foolishly), then the best way to do that is to buy and hold for many years.

Allegedly, one US broker found that their most successful clients were those who had forgotten that they had an account (and so didn't trade at all). Perhaps SVS clients will find that being locked out of their accounts improves their investment returns, as they are, without any choice in the matter, obliged to hold their current investments through the current market turmoil.

This is not to imply that the length of the special resolution process is acceptable. But you can't have it both ways: either frequent trading is the road to ruin and you'd be mad to over-trade, or it's the road to riches and not being able to trade for a while will damage your wealth, but not both. My own view is closer to the former.

You also need to place the blame for the length of the special resolution process in the correct place. Which is with the laws governing how this process is handled, not with "greedy administrators".

masonic

Monsieur_Bourse said:

Why on earth are people attacking johnburman on this forum. I totally agree with his comments. First we were told somewhere around April/May now we have been informed in could drag on to bloody September! It seems to be nice work if you can get it for administrators in the UK. I am sure we have all seen the value of our portfolios disappear down the pan this week, without being able to do a thing about it. I personally saw a 4 bagger, which was up there on thin air totally collapse without being able to take any profit, and on Tuesday another one of my shares doubled only to fall back to earth again by Friday.

The criticisms of those who have spent a great deal of time complaining in this thread, but seem unwilling to spend any time doing anything constructive about their plight, are not just limited to johnburman. If you're feeling left out, I could ask you whether you've written to your MP about the issue?

Monsieur_Bourse said:

What on earth would be the point of telephoning or e-mailing LC, asking as to why things are taking so long, as some has suggested on this forum, just to be fobbed off with some generic reply.

That suggestion was probably tongue in cheek, but sensible suggestions have been made regarding steps investors could take to channel their anger, rather than pollute this thread with seemingly endless grumbling.

Monsieur_Bourse said:

Sadly to trade in equities we are obliged to deal with all the sharks in the financial industry, something that really pains me. At best when trying to invest we are up against crooks and computers, and then when your broker goes into administration we are not even allowed to do that.

Investing and trading are two different activities in my view. Traders will come out of this a lot worse off than investors. I couldn't have put it better than @city_of_angels.

bowlhead99

Monsieur_Bourse said:

Why on earth are people attacking johnburman on this forum. 

Nobody is being 'attacked'. Johnburnam is telling us that it is simply not acceptable or understandable for it to take as long as it takes. and wants to get more information about it or for something to be done about it and we are giving him suggestions but after 1000+ posts on a thread there is not a lot of new information to impart or new suggestions to make. There's nothing new under the sun, as they say.

As noted above, some of the delay is due to law and process (appoint an MP to represent you on issues you find important and contact them when you feel something needs to be done in relation to law and regulation), while some of it on timeliness and information flow is down to the specifics of the administration and negotiation for a new custodian of the assets (appoint a Creditor's Committee to represent you in the liquidation and contact them when you want them to make a point or find out information on behalf of you and your fellow thousands of creditors/ investors).

Platitudes on a public forum such as, 'but something MUST BE DONE' ; 'someone should be DEMANDING things' are relatively useless. That's why it was suggested to johnburman that he actually contacted his MP or the creditors committee, though we would not expect to see an immediate effect from it. Likewise someone asking *us* why it is taking so long is not going to make it go faster as it is not *us* doing the administration. 

We can see the frustration, 1000+ posts into the thread, and sympathise with John. If someone wants to blow off some steam and rant that it is terrible and scandalous and simply unacceptable, in the hope that other like-minded individuals will post back to say, 'there there, yes it is terrible isn't it', then they're welcome to fill the thread up with that kind of content, but as it's a public forum you might expect others to interject and say that the whole thread is getting a bit tiresome, and then others say that they're welcome not to look at the thread etc etc.  Such is the nature of public discussions.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not going to write to johnburnam's MP to say on John's behalf that it is important that the laws should be changed and the FCA have something to answer for, because I don't care enough. Perhaps John has already done that last year, or in January when he read the client update and updated FAQs, or in February when he read that client update, or on Friday after reading the Progress Report. 

johnburman

Anybody on the creditors committee or anyone who has a connection to them like to comment? What are you doing to reduce the delay?