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Natwest Joint Accounts & a Will

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Hello there,
I'm doing some research and I like some information from experts in the field if possible, as we seem to have a disagreement here...

In this case.. The funds in the account(s) ALL belongs to person 1 but they've added person 2 to manage the "joint account". From what I understand, there's no debt cards or internet banking of any form, it's purely an joint bank account with a paying in book.

Here lies the problem... What will happen if person 1 of the named account holder decease, but the sole beneficiary of is person 3 which isn't on the named account. Would this person have access to those account(s) with a death certificate and legal identity? Would they be able to collect 100% of the funds? Or would those funds be split between person 2 and person 3??

I'm sorry for the complicated issue but basically, person 1 doesnt' speak english, but person 2 does... However none of the funds belong to person 2

Thanks for your help.

Comments

  • The usual position is that on death of one of the account holders, the joint account will pass by the rule of survivorship to the surviving account holder, outside the terms of the deceased’s Will.
    This means all the money goes to person 2.
    Despite the rule of survivorship described above, a dispute can arise when one party has paid all or most of the money into the account. A court can and will look at the true intention behind the creation of the account and afterwards.

    The starting point is a presumption that the monies contributed by the deceased joint owner will fall within his estate.

    This means that all the money goes to person 3, if person 3 is the sole beneficiary in the Will or through intestacy.

    Summarised from

    https://www.ibblaw.co.uk/insights/blog/joint-bank-accounts-post-death-clarity-intention-key

    Note their comment regarding the court case Drakeford v Cotton and Stain [2012] EWHC 1414(Ch): Whilst the deceased’s intentions were upheld, this was only after an expensive and acrimonious Court battle.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • This means all the money goes to person 2.



    This means that all the money goes to person 3, if person 3 is the sole beneficiary in the Will or through intestacy.

    Summarised from

    <snip>

    Note their comment regarding the court case Drakeford v Cotton and Stain [2012] EWHC 1414(Ch): Whilst the deceased’s intentions were upheld, this was only after an expensive and acrimonious Court battle.

    Thank you, that's what I thought....

    Now... What if Person 1 asks person 2 to transfer all the funds to person 3 but person 2 refuse?
  • maman
    maman Posts: 29,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    It might help to know why these people are in this situation.

    Why wait until death confuses the issue. Why have someone on a joint account if they don't share the money? Surely the best way to resolve things is to not have a joint account or have one with Person 3.
  • maman wrote: »
    It might help to know why these people are in this situation.

    Why wait until death confuses the issue. Why have someone on a joint account if they don't share the money? Surely the best way to resolve things is to not have a joint account or have one with Person 3.

    Well.. Person 1 doesn't speak english but they live here. plus they need to pay utilities and other things. Since banks require the account holder to give authorizations for transactions, it made sense at the time the account was opened cause person 3 wasn't born then. Now, they've decided that their estate will goto person 3 as a sole beneficiary.
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 20,742 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    It would be better set up a lasting power of attorney, and ditch the joint account.
  • Stoodles
    Stoodles Posts: 828 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I've recently discovered the General Pwer of Attorney, which is simpler than a Lasting Power, and is intended for situations where the Donor(Person 1) has capacity but needs help


    It is explained well at https://www.nationwide.co.uk/support/managing-someone-elses-finances/general-power-of-attorney#xtab:twistyitem-form
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 20,742 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Stoodles wrote: »
    I've recently discovered the General Pwer of Attorney, which is simpler than a Lasting Power, and is intended for situations where the Donor(Person 1) has capacity but needs help


    It is explained well at https://www.nationwide.co.uk/support/managing-someone-elses-finances/general-power-of-attorney#xtab:twistyitem-form

    A GPA should only be used as a short term solution, it becomes useless if the donor loses capacity through accident or illness.
  • 74jax
    74jax Posts: 7,930 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    NikitaXX wrote: »
    Hello there,
    I'm doing some research and I like some information from experts in the field if possible, as we seem to have a disagreement here...

    In this case.. The funds in the account(s) ALL belongs to person 1 but they've added person 2 to manage the "joint account". From what I understand, there's no debt cards or internet banking of any form, it's purely an joint bank account with a paying in book.

    Here lies the problem... What will happen if person 1 of the named account holder decease, but the sole beneficiary of is person 3 which isn't on the named account. Would this person have access to those account(s) with a death certificate and legal identity? Would they be able to collect 100% of the funds? Or would those funds be split between person 2 and person 3??

    I'm sorry for the complicated issue but basically, person 1 doesnt' speak english, but person 2 does... However none of the funds belong to person 2

    Thanks for your help.

    Why don't they do power of attorney?
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
  • LilElvis
    LilElvis Posts: 5,835 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    NikitaXX wrote: »
    Well.. Person 1 doesn't speak english but they live here. plus they need to pay utilities and other things. Since banks require the account holder to give authorizations for transactions, it made sense at the time the account was opened cause person 3 wasn't born then. Now, they've decided that their estate will goto person 3 as a sole beneficiary.

    Is person 3 still a minor? It might be helpful if you explained the relationship between the three people.
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    Joint accounts can still have the benefitial interest 100% belonging to one person.
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