CPM PCNs in residential car park

qlueless

Hey MSE-ers

I was hoping to get some opinions whether I have strong grounds for contesting PCNs that have been received.

I’ve been a resident at a large block of flats since February and have had no parking problems since last week; 3 parking tickets were received from CPM (UK Car Park Management) for “no parking outside of a marked bay”x2 and “no parking outside of a designated area”x1.

The bay that the car was parked in within white dashed line (‘valid’), however, was also within yellow lines (‘invalid’). Both sets of lines are quite worn out. The white dashed line continues through the yellow line. I believe that, as the car was parked was within white dashed lines, it was parked validly.
(https:// removed)
imgur.com/a/sqGiLv7 - car parked in bay (blue car is relevant one)
imgur.com/a/TQxZPoZ - white and yellow markings intersecting
imgur.com/a/IbhyxkM - bay where car was parked with markings + signage

One last thing: they made a point to take an individual photo of the red sign for their evidence, however I think the sign is very misleading. ‘this area’ could very well mean the whole area past that sign, which it does not.

Hope that all made sense, thanks!

Redx

check your lease etc first, see what it says or does not say about parking

what did the MA say and do when you complained to them ?

why are they ticketing you if you have your own space ?

has there been a vote on introducing the PPC ?

qlueless

Thank you so much for your quick reply!

I have requested the lease from my landlord and am waiting for their reply.

I have yet to complain to the MA. I'm planning on outlining the whole situation tomorrow, similarly to as I have here, and pushing them to intervene.

The spaces are first come first serve, so that space is not mine.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "vote on introducing the PPC"? I believe the CPM have been managing the block's parking area for a while now - not too sure on details.

Fruitcake

Your links made live.

https://imgur.com/a/sqGiLv7 - car parked in bay (blue car is relevant one)

https://imgur.com/a/TQxZPoZ - white and yellow markings intersecting

https://imgur.com/a/IbhyxkM - bay where car was parked with markings + signage

It is not clear if the white dashed lines continue alongside the blue car, but there appears to be something by the front wheel that might be a line.
The scammers will issue a scamvoice if a tyre is 1mm over a line, but it is not clear from the angle that image was taken whether or not this was the case. It could be argued that it is not over the line and the image does not prove the opposite.

Are the meanings of the lines explained on the signs? For example does it say what the white lines mean, and what the yellow lines mean, and what takes precedent when they cross.

A close up of the signage would be useful for the regulars to see.

However, your lease/AST (contract) overrides anything a third party scammer says. They cannot add on extra conditions that were not in your original contract; nor can they make you pay for something you already have for free.

As already suggested, carefully read what your lease/AST says about parking. It is equally important to see what I doesn't say about parking.
Whoever brought in the scammers needs a good kicking, and you need to either move because your property is blighted, or get the scammers kicked out.

Redx's question about a vote was about residents having a say on what is or introduced on site. I can't remember the exact wording, but there must be a majority of residents in favour of introducing a policy like this, with no more than a certain number of dissenters.

You should look this up and then challenge the MA. Was there a vote, if so did it comply with the requirements? If there was no vote or failed to meet the requirements then the MA are at fault and have left themselves open to legal action as they are liable for their actions in bringing in the scammers, and jointly liable for the actions of said scammers.

You should also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

The_Deep

Have you read this?

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

These scammers have no place in residential car parks. In most cases the lease/AST overrides the made up T&C thst the scammers put on their signs, read about "primavy of contract".

They are almost certainly interfering qith you right to "peaceful enjoyment" of your property, possibly an offence under the Landlord and Tenant Act.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

qlueless

I believe the issue is that the car was parked within yellow lines, not that it was outside the dashed white lines. There are photos which show the car is within the white lines.

Here's a picture of the signage: imgur.com/a/D5tr330. There's no mention of crossing lines.

I spoke to the MA this morning and these were their main points:
About the bay itself:
- this is the first issue with that bay
- no problems were caused to the owner of the garage which that bay 'obstructed'
- very clearly stated on the red sign is no parking.
- they can't remove the old white lines.
- it says "no parking" on the floor but it's worn away
- the yellow line is clearly shown
- seemed keen to make it more obvious it is not a parking space.
About the PPC:
- told to appeal the tickets and tell them what CPM reply with. I explained how appealing does nothing but they're keen for it to be done anyways.
- new ticketing officer has started and has been giving out incorrect tickets to staff members
- CPM have told MA not to bring up individual tickets with them, as they have in the past with resident's complaints. MA seemed hesitant, but not completely unwilling, to intervene if need be. What would this process look like for the MA - just an email outlining the PCN numbers to withdraw?
- CPM brought in to manage the parking area a few years ago

Im eagerly waiting for my landlord to provide their lease and look into any statements about parking. I have read that parking-prankster blog but can't do much until I have the lease.

I will definately bring this up with my MP as the PPC has caused various issues with residents.

The_Deep

. What would this process look like for the MA -

At worst an MA could be looking at a claim becoming a co-defendant in a data breach claim, a harassment claim, or possibly a claim under the Landlord and Tenant and/or Housing Acts.

CPM have told MA not to bring up individual tickets with them, as they have in the past with resident's complaints.

The MA have a legal duty to ignore this. They are responsible in law for the scammers actions wrt the harassment of occupants.

qlueless

And the realistic best case is that the MA tell the PPC to drop the charges and they comply? I'm not too sure what to tell the MA to do.