Injury at work

Adamantsinyapants

I have been employed with current company (huge MNC) for 10 years and have worked in many different departments at multiple sites with generally good reputation etc. My sickness record before this was 3 days off in 10 years.

About 4 years ago I switched to a manual role that required very heavy and repetitive lifting but skilled/semi skilled.

The medical condition was not caused by work but was exacerbated by it. I was told by my GP and surgeon I was unable to complete my normal duties. i.e no heavy lifting! This stopped me from performing my role I was in and required an operation.

Work were great and understanding and they redeployed me to a previous role I had in the company that involved zero heavy lifting. I waited 6 months and had the operation and was advised 6 weeks recovery, and was signed off for six weeks and advised I could return to my role after 6 months and return to heavy lifting but not before then. While off work organised a whip round and a card and flowers and a few beers etc. Great!

Work again we’re understanding and slowly phased return to work. 3 months into my 6 months no lifting ban the poop hits the fan and “I’m the only one who can help! there’s a massive order, loads of sickness! we will lose the account etc we need you to return to previous role”. I protest and get pressure and guilt trips daily ( as it’s a skilled role not many other options for them) get threatened with occupation health, fitness to work may have to let me go etc etc ...

I reluctantly do 2 days and BAM! I knew straight away I had re-injured myself.

I now need another op I have been on waiting list for nearly a year after chasing I seem no closer to getting the Op (that’s a whole other thread) I can’t lift anything.

So back to previous role and nice as pie and lots of “ooh dont know what could have caused that you didn’t do anything too strenuous, we didn’t ask you to perform any heavy lifting” etc

They are now threatening again and want me to return to previous role even though I haven’t had the op again yet and I secured an office based role with same company but with the caveat of once fully better I will help during busy periods to do heavy lifting role when needed.

Where do I stand legally? What can the company actually do if I refuse? They are still asking on the odd days to help out and mounting pressure again. When’s your op? Can you help out for an hour etc etc

Sorry that was longer than I expected but thanks for any input

dickydonkin

You say you were ‘threatened’ with occupational health, so my first thought here would have been to advise anyone with a pre-existing condition to actually go to occupational health and let them decide if you were fit to carry out the new tasks asked of you.

Their report would also have gone some way to assist in a risk assessment that would have needed to be undertaken due to your pre-existing condition.

I dare bet no assessment (factoring in your condition) was undertaken.

Adamantsinyapants

When i first took on the manual role both myself and employer were unaware of my injury although I had on/off pain with it i thought it was a minor thing. It wasnt until my Op the surgeon said it was a longstanding injury.

I did not see occupational health on my return to work.

Occupational health is usually a euphemism for “we’re looking to get you fired” on health grounds.

HR have been outsourced and pretty useless.

I will add my surgeon said after the OP and appropriate recovery I will be 100% fit and able but i genuinely need 6 months recovery minimum or 1 year if being cautious.

tacpot12

Does your contract say that your employer can change your role or duties without you agreeing to the change? Many contracts have a Flexibility clause that says something like "You will also be expected to carry out any other duties that are reasonably asked of you." The key point here is reasonableness.

It's debatable whether it would be reasonable for the employer to ask you to perform these duties that have previously injured you, and it would DEFINITELY not be reasonable during any recovery period advised by your doctor.

If you refuse, your employer could dismiss you, but I doubt that they will. You have the right not to be dismissed if you refuse to work in conditions that are unsafe for you. If you can show a tribunal that the main or only reason you were dismissed was for taking action over a health and safety issue, your dismissal will be automatically unfair.

I would just refuse politely to help with the heavy lifting, and carry on doing your existing duties. If they start threatening, ask to see your OT and the Health and Safety Manager for the site. The H&S Manager will be very keen to avoid insurance claims such as might arise if they force you to work. Make it clear you have the resources to sue them, even if you don't!

I don't see how the OT can help the employer dismiss you from a role that you are fit for.

I would record every conversation you have about doing heavy lifting in a diary immediately after the conversation takes place. Make notes about the threats that are used. This will be evidence of the pressure they have applied.

k3lvc

Adamantsinyapants wrote: »

Occupational health is usually a euphemism for “we’re looking to get you fired” on health grounds.

A very sweeping statement and no longer true in many multinationals. I've been in a similar situation but when I saw a potential repeat of circumstances that caused my initial sickness I proactively contacted OH and they couldn't have been more helpful. In your shoes I'd be contacting them for a discussion - given your waiting time for an op then if you're valued to the business they may have a private solution they can offer

nicechap

Adamantsinyapants wrote: »

I have been employed with current company (huge MNC) for 10 years and have worked in many different departments at multiple sites with generally good reputation etc. My sickness record before this was 3 days off in 10 years.

About 4 years ago I switched to a manual role that required very heavy and repetitive lifting but skilled/semi skilled.

The medical condition was not caused by work but was exacerbated by it. I was told by my GP and surgeon I was unable to complete my normal duties. i.e no heavy lifting! This stopped me from performing my role I was in and required an operation.

Work were great and understanding and they redeployed me to a previous role I had in the company that involved zero heavy lifting. I waited 6 months and had the operation and was advised 6 weeks recovery, and was signed off for six weeks and advised I could return to my role after 6 months and return to heavy lifting but not before then. While off work organised a whip round and a card and flowers and a few beers etc. Great!

Work again we’re understanding and slowly phased return to work. 3 months into my 6 months no lifting ban the poop hits the fan and “I’m the only one who can help! there’s a massive order, loads of sickness! we will lose the account etc we need you to return to previous role”. I protest and get pressure and guilt trips daily ( as it’s a skilled role not many other options for them) get threatened with occupation health, fitness to work may have to let me go etc etc ...

I reluctantly do 2 days and BAM! I knew straight away I had re-injured myself.

I now need another op I have been on waiting list for nearly a year after chasing I seem no closer to getting the Op (that’s a whole other thread) I can’t lift anything.

So back to previous role and nice as pie and lots of “ooh dont know what could have caused that you didn’t do anything too strenuous, we didn’t ask you to perform any heavy lifting” etc

They are now threatening again and want me to return to previous role even though I haven’t had the op again yet and I secured an office based role with same company but with the caveat of once fully better I will help during busy periods to do heavy lifting role when needed.

Where do I stand legally? What can the company actually do if I refuse? They are still asking on the odd days to help out and mounting pressure again. When’s your op? Can you help out for an hour etc etc

Sorry that was longer than I expected but thanks for any input

Adamantsinyapants wrote: »

When i first took on the manual role both myself and employer were unaware of my injury although I had on/off pain with it i thought it was a minor thing. It wasnt until my Op the surgeon said it was a longstanding injury.

I did not see occupational health on my return to work.

Occupational health is usually a euphemism for “we’re looking to get you fired” on health grounds.

HR have been outsourced and pretty useless.

I will add my surgeon said after the OP and appropriate recovery I will be 100% fit and able but i genuinely need 6 months recovery minimum or 1 year if being cautious.

It would be useful if you could define heavy lifting (holding a bag of sugar at arms length for 2 minutes or picking up 25kg bags from floor to above head height?) as I’m guessing other people have performed the task before you or do so alongside you without the need to be off sick as a result. In my limited experience, aggravating pre-existing problems is more often down to poor technique, failing to use lifting equipment, or just pride in not asking for a second pair of hands.

So have you been shown how to perform manual handling and lifting tasks? What equipment is provided to make the tasks safer? No one should be lifting outside HSE limits (google is your friend).

It sounds as though you are currently at work and most of the problems are more about communication with your manager, colleagues, hr and occupational health.

At the end of the day, you are employed to do a job, if you refuse you can lose your job, either through capability processes or disciplinary processes. Only you know which is likely based on what’s happened to date.

If you want legal advice, you need to see a lawyer, many do initial free consultations, and you should not rely on strangers on the internet who do not know your industry, contract, etc or have the full story.

Adamantsinyapants

Heavy lifting the surgeon advised he could not put a specific number on the fit note but he reckons approx. 20kg.

Believe it or not i am actually a trained manual handling assessor and been on many courses etc employer provides all PPE and lifting equipment and we are checked and reassessed every 12 months.

In regards to occupational health being a term for ‘we want rid’ that is specific for our site/business.

My company have automatic points at which sickness management kicks in but my local managers have flew me under the radar. So I haven't had any sickness warnings etc.

The company paid out approximately for £2.5k for me to do the training to be able to move to the manual role with a 50% pay increase. I did that role for nearly 2 years before I got injured.

I have asked head honcho if they would consider paying private for my operation but that was a big fat no.

I think what has annoyed them massively is two things:

How long getting the operation is taking on the NHS

I applied for and was successful in gaining another role in the company after the second time of injuring myself, which has nothing to do with the manual side of the operation but is performed at the same site. It did help the hiring manager is a close friend who i have worked for previously.

I will check my new contract but my new manager did state that head honcho has stated they paid alot to train me up so he expects for me to flex across roles if needed and in return i can keep my pay increase. My new contract states and come straight from HR with no mention of any locally agreed arrangements:

Your role is: xxxx
Your pay is: xxxxx
Your duties are: xxx ‘you will be required to undertake any reasonable extra responsibilities’

All other terms and conditions of employment stay the same.

Adamantsinyapants

I think in the hopes of getting a definitive answer i may have supplied too much info.

Essentially i want to know

If i work in Role A (new position) can i be fired/dismissed for refusing to work in Role B (manual position) on health grounds or simply not wanting to.

I think it was answered with: depends on what contract says and what would be considered reasonable extra responsibilities.

I would not consider role B to be reasonable as

1) you need to be fully trained to do it

2) my current health

I will continue to decline to do role B and see what they come back with.

Undervalued

Adamantsinyapants wrote: »

In regards to occupational health being a term for ‘we want rid’ that is specific for our site/business.

Even if that is true, which quite frankly I doubt, you would be ill advised not to engage with OH if the employer requests it.

Regardless of who is paying the bill an OH doctor's first legal duty is to the patient. If you could show that he has acted otherwise he could potentially be struck off.

If it came to a legal dispute with your employer they will argue that they wanted to take the independent advice of a highly qualified expert before making any decisions. It will be an uphill battle to argue against that.

nicechap

Adamantsinyapants wrote: »

I think in the hopes of getting a definitive answer i may have supplied too much info.

Essentially i want to know

If i work in Role A (new position) can i be fired/dismissed for refusing to work in Role B (manual position) on health grounds or simply not wanting to. as mentioned above, yes, if you’re not capable (health) or refuse (disciplinary)

I think it was answered with: depends on what contract says and what would be considered reasonable extra responsibilities.

I would not consider role B to be reasonable as

1) you need to be fully trained to do it

2) my current health
whilst you need to take reasonable precautions to protect your health, your bosses clearly think it is reasonable to expect you to perform a role for which you have been trained and being paid extra. Ultimately it would be for a tribunal to determine what is reasonable.
I will continue to decline to do role B and see what they come back with.

Let us know how it turns out.

Undervalued

Adamantsinyapants wrote: »

I think in the hopes of getting a definitive answer i may have supplied too much info.

Essentially i want to know

If i work in Role A (new position) can i be fired/dismissed for refusing to work in Role B (manual position) on health grounds or simply not wanting to.

I think it was answered with: depends on what contract says and what would be considered reasonable extra responsibilities.

I would not consider role B to be reasonable as

1) you need to be fully trained to do it

2) my current health

I will continue to decline to do role B and see what they come back with.

Well you can always be dismissed! What you are really asking is, were that to happen, would you have a winnable case that would lead to a worthwhile level of compensation?

You need proper professional advice on that but in general terms, based on what has been posted here, I wouldn't be too confident. Plus, except in cases of blatant unlawful discrimination, most employment tribunal awards are for far less than people imagine.

Ultimately if you are not fit to do your current job and that situation is likely to continue you can be lawfully dismissed. Unless your illness / injury amounts to a disability (in the legal sense) then technically the employer is not obliged to even make "reasonable adjustments". Most will but they don't have to. In such a case being offered a different role is a bonus, not a right.

If you have a disability then you have more rights. The employer is obliged to make "reasonable adjustments" to enable you to continue working. What is reasonable can ultimately only be decided by an employment tribunal. Most decent employers generally got far beyond what the law would require.