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Penalty Notice (Saba) & Lease Car

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A friend managed to get one of these today,
Now its a lease car, and with it being a bye law ticket , liability can not be transferred over to the driver , and even if they appeal straight away ZZPS/Saba will automatically apply for keeper details in the next month or sooo.... and this would then result in a definite admin charge and they will most likely pay the ticket...

So given the above is this one of those unfortunate cases where they are best just to pay up

Thoughts pls....

Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,373 Forumite
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    Wouldn't one of the 'hirer' template letters from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1, hook this in the right direction, away from the hire/lease companies?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

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  • BrownTrout
    BrownTrout Posts: 2,298 Forumite
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    edited 30 July 2019 at 9:25PM
    Umkomaas wrote: »
    Wouldn't one of the 'hirer' template letters from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1, hook this in the right direction, away from the hire/lease companies?

    No because with Penalty Tickets like this , even with an appeal is logged unlike a windscreen ticket for a normal pcn they still obtain keeper details and you cant then do a liability transfer as you can normally
  • BrownTrout
    BrownTrout Posts: 2,298 Forumite
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    Bump..... :)
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,970 Forumite
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    I'd appeal as driver, then string them along for 6 months.

    Stops any possibility of a NTK to the lease firm.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • BrownTrout
    BrownTrout Posts: 2,298 Forumite
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    Surely though they will still send a notice to owner with it not being a normal pcn
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,970 Forumite
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    Hmmm...never tested it but fessing up the driver in a non-template 'look at me I'm the driver and I have no clue' deliberately weak first appeal would be my tactic.

    You want SABA to think they have a mug hooked.

    I've done deliberately weak first appeals before. A tactic that used to go over the heads of some stupid idiots who didn't do joined up thinking.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,463 Forumite
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    BrownTrout wrote: »
    Surely though they will still send a notice to owner with it not being a normal pcn

    How? They don't know who the owner is unless the owner themselves tells them. The DVLA don't hold owner details, owner the keeper's name and address, but the keeper isn't liable where byelaws apply.

    I would appeal as day to day keeper and tell the hire/lease company what's happening, and they must not pay the scamvoice under any circumstances.
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  • BrownTrout
    BrownTrout Posts: 2,298 Forumite
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    Fruitcake wrote: »
    How? They don't know who the owner is unless the owner themselves tells them. The DVLA don't hold owner details, owner the keeper's name and address, but the keeper isn't liable where byelaws apply.

    I would appeal as day to day keeper and tell the hire/lease company what's happening, and they must not pay the scamvoice under any circumstances.

    Ok owner/keeper. Even when people appeal these they still obtain keeper details
  • Edna_Basher
    Edna_Basher Posts: 782 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Posts
    Hi Brown Trout

    I know that the Railway Byelaws are a real dog's dinner in respect of when an owner may (or may not) be liable for a railway parking penalty charge.

    However, I wonder if Paragraph 24 (4) of the Byelaws is of any use in these Saba cases where Saba in its capacity as the ToC's agent is seeking payment of a penalty charge as an alternative to prosecution.

    Paragraph 24 (4) reads as follows:

    No person shall be subject to any penalty for breach of any of the Byelaws by disobeying a notice unless it is proved to the satisfaction of the Court before whom the complaint is laid that the notice referred to in the particular Byelaw was displayed.

    The enforcement of breaches of parking terms and conditions are clearly dependent upon those terms and conditions being displayed on notices in the railway car park..... so according to Paragraph 24 (4) any penalty may be applied only after the Court has been satisfied with the adequacy of the signs?


    Footnote: I'm now an interested party because we have today received - or rather our lease company (the station in question has ANPR operation) - has just received a Saba Penalty Notice of our own :)
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