Car Dealer - Next Step Advice Needed

PforPaul

Hello all.
This is my first post. I'm looking for help and advice on what to do next. After reading the following, my options are:
A. Take the dealer to the small claims court
B. Accept a repair.
Unfortunately, neither option is 100% suitable, and I'm in a pickle on what to do.

The story so far.
On Wednesday June 5th I bought a Jaguar Xf s 3.0 Diesel for £4995 from a dealer in Wokingham. Test drove it. Noticed a leak, asked about it, was told it had just been washed. I looked at the car, and decided it had and I was happy with that. The dealers card machine was not working so I had to do a bank transfer. Car bought and drove back to Newcastle upon Tyne. I didn't use the car again until the weekend with my kids. This time, I noticed a strong smell of fuel. It could have been there when I bought, but I wreck my sense of smell with a nasal spray to keep hayfever at bay when I go or work down south. On the Monday 10th June I booked it into a garage for it to be looked at. I spent the cost of an hours labour to go over the car and the result was a definite fuel leak and a possible oil leak. Advice, take it to a local Jaguar specialist for an opinion on what might be causing it and how costly it would be to fix. It was booked in for the following week 19th June. At this point I wasn't thinking about rejecting the car, but instead getting it fixed locally at the dealers cost as I like the car. Oh, and a battery warning light came on a day before taking it to the Jag specialist. And now, steam / vapours come out of the engine when driving it and the engine is heated up. Result of Jaguar specialist inspection for one hour:

Fuel leak, but can't locate it in an hour, it would take much longer to start stripping the car engine to inspect cause.

Oil leak, but again, can;t locate cause in one hour and would need a longer inspection.

Alternator dead, as the oil leak is finishing up on the alternator.

So now I have a car that won't start and cant charge itself even if it would start. Advice from the Jag specialist, get you money back asap.

Now, as I paid cash transfer, I can't claim charge back on a debit card. Throughout this I've kept him up to date via text and email. I even supplied photos of the wet fuel at the base of the engine. His advice, just get a report and we'll take it from there. Upon leaving the Jag garage I decided the car simply was not of satisfactory quality, and very much not fit for purpose. So within 30 days I rejected the car by email and letter. The first letter sent signed for, but the royal mail website told be they couldn't deliver as the recepient refused to sign for it. So I sent again with proof of postage this time. I got a text to say he'd read my email. Repeated attempts of trying to contact him since then have been fruitless. At the final hour on day 30 he called me. To tell me this:

That he hadn't been in work as he wasn't in a good place. And he couldn't refund me the money as he didn't have any. I asked how with a forecourt of over 60 cars. He said they are all sale or return for private sellers. He wanted to fix the car and would put a little money in my account asap to prove this. I said I wanted my money back and would start court proceedings through the small claims court.

So, should I.......:

A. Spend £480 to start a small claims court case for up to 6K, wait a few months and if I win, watch him still say he has no money. At which point I'll have to arrange another court date to arrange for bailiffs to take his property, which will take another few months at least. All the while, I'm hiring cars and the jag sits in front of my house.

B. Chuck in in a garage and explain whats the matter and the dealer is paying, and supply them with his details. Find out of he's serious and take the part upfront payment to fix the car and give it to the mechanic. And potentially receive a call from the mechanic saying although it's fixed, they can;t release it as the dealer won't pay.

As of the moment, I cannot reach the dealer.

For perspective, it's a 5 grand car. It's not the end of the world. But its still a problem in my life I need sorted out.

Advice greatly appreciated.

neilc75

How much is the "little money " he is willing to put in your account ? If after you have you got a full quote the amount is at least 50% of the cost of the work id take it , all this nonsense about him being in a bad place has nothing to do with you , if he was professional it wouldn't be relevant . My father went through the same years ago , he ended up out of pocket but it was just as frustrating as the guy kept taking it back and saying that he'd fixed it ( he hadn't of course ) . Option B isn't a good idea because if the car gets fixed and isn't paid for and you haven't got the cash it will sit on the garages premises , they will charge you for storage and they will end up with the car and you might end up owing them . Unfortunately sometimes genuine trusting people get done over by lesser people and it ends up costing them .

jaybeetoo

Welcome to the forum.

Why did you buy a used car in Wokingham when you live in Newcastle Upon Tyne? These forums are full of tails of woe from people who have bought used cars from garages miles away from where they live. It really is asking for trouble.

Sadly, you have broken just about every rule in the purchase of this car. I won't list them all. I fear you have no hope of getting your money back.

Going to the Small Claims Court will probably mean throwing good money after bad. You may win but I doubt you'll see any money.

Taking the car to another garage won't help as they are not going to chase the repair money for you.

Legally, you should have taken the car back to the selling dealer to give him a chance to repair it.

neilc75

Just a bit of advice re above , I work for the Police so I know what I'm talking about here, ( doesn't apply to you but just for forum users info ) never buy a car in a layby/ pub car park / services Whilst meeting the seller 1/2 way , never buy off a seller who will forward the log book to you because they have lost it , never buy off a seller who isn't the registered keeper because he's either nicked it or had it a week and realised it's a banger , before you hand over the cash at least make sure the key is for the car ! I've had people turn up at work with YALE keys that they have been given for Audi's . I wouldn't get myself in trouble by saying never buy an Audi (good cars) , however they get stolen , they get stolen a lot , the insurance must be horrendous. Finally if you're selling a car it is your responsibility as the seller to fill in the new keepers details and inform the DVLA , if the new owner says he/she will do it to save you the trouble they will most likely bin the form and you will get speeding / parking tickets/ police knocking on doors for drive off from petrol forecourts without payment for the rest of your life for the vehicle

PforPaul

Neilc75, thank you. We had a discussion on the phone and I said as much as you'd like it to be a split £5 rubber pipe, according to 2 mechanics, it's very unlikely to be. The first few hundred will be labour alone. So I simply said, how much will you go to before you decide the car isn't worth it and you need to refund, or I start court proceedings. He said £1500. He's have to pay £600 for a flat bed anyway. And this way I get a working car. Of course I don;t trust him and told him so. And explained why should I believe he'll pay the garage for the repair. At this point he said he'll put the first part in my account that night. I didn't ask how much, but I should have. For a garage repair to be an option I'd need upfront cash.

Jaybeetoo - thank you. I work all over the UK and change cars quite often, mostly from far away. Most cars have had zero issues. The last Land Rover Discovery from Notts has a faulty gearbox, and the dealer gave me a car while he got it repaired. No quibbles. I guess based on my experiences I've somewhat rested on my laurels. The guy didn't want to car back and kept advising me to get a report. I was happy to do this elsewhere as I didn't trust him to look / repair properly with no drama*

*Unlike other countries where dealers cannot MOT cars and MOT startions cannot sell cars, this guy had just MOT'd the car. It mentioned 'a light misting of oil on the shock absorber', but failed to mention a glaringly obvious fuel leak and oil leak both in terms of visual and smell. So, I wasn't keen to let him look at it. I wanted independent. And maybe I'm not right, but I thought I could reject it without needing to give him the chance to repair, if under 30 days. After 30 days, he needs the chance to repair first.

My gut instinct tells me to give the court route a miss. But that's why I'm asking here for advice. I'm not entirely trusting my gut right now.

loskie

OP the onus is on you to return it back to the seller for rejection and refund or repair.

NOW you have had other garages meddling with the car you are in a WEAKER position. What's to say that they haven't aggravated the damage?

Remember even though it was a £5k car to you this is a premium car with premium repair prices. You have bought it near the end of its life.

k3lvc

loskie wrote: »

Remember even though it was a £5k car to you this is a premium car with premium repair prices. You have bought it near the end of its life.

A £5k XF3.0DS is right at the bottom money - especially from a dealer and these things can cost serious money (I ran a 2010 one from 80k-110k miles and without the Jag warranty it would have cost me c.£3.5k at independent prices to keep it running for that period (and that's without the £1.5k on tyres/brakes over the same period).

Little issues can cost big money as everything is difficult to get to on the V6.

Simplest issue is for OP to return the car (it's not the dealers responsibility to collect) and reject it - it's a risk especially as no card payment to fall back on (big mistake to ignore this warning sign) but the chances are that court will just see the formation of AC trading rather than AB trading (and presumably AA tradig before that)

PforPaul

Scooby.Doo - The problem is it can;t be driven and won't start. Dead battery. And with a new battery at £130, it still probs wont make the 5 hour journey. Battery runs out, then ABS and power steering lock up, and auto gear box won;t work.

loskie - Thanks. Up until now, you;re the only person suggesting other garages have meddled with the car. The dealer is aware that two independent firms have looked at the car, and he was happy for that to happen. And yes, I know, old premium car - it's not the first like it I've bought. Things will always go wrong on new and old cars. Generally, I've had no bother. This time, obvs, very different.

What can I say, I like to buy older premium cars. That said, I could just have easily ran into a problem with a 3 yo Ford Fiesta. Car brand and value aside, it's the dealer causing the biggest problem here, not the car. And I fully expect things to go wrong, and I know how much it will cost me over the year before I buy something else. But I also choose to buy from traders because up until know, i've purchased some great cars and had great experiences.

Even if I fork out to get the car back to the dealer, as I've mentioned - he's said he can;t afford to refund me. So, I'd be giving the car back in exchange for nothing. Plus the fact it's not driveable.

oddjobbpb

Name and shame the dealer please

lopsyfa

Probably best to repair the car and chase the dealer for the repair cost if he fail to deliver on his promise to pay for the repair. That way, you will only risk not getting your repair cost back versus giving him the car and no guarantee of getting any refund.

PforPaul

A mixture of bad luck and a lesson learned.

For the record, the dealer is Camberley Motor House in Wokingham.