Flatshare issue...

ryanm8655

I’ve just moved into a new flatshare, officially the contract started on the 11th July but I had some furniture delivered on the 2nd and moved the rest of my stuff on the 3rd.

It’s sharing with two others, the self-appointed lead tenant and another person. The “lead tenant” said they would see if I could move my things early and nothing was mentioned re: rent. The landlord didn’t ask for any payment and it seemed to be considered easier for me to start paying when the contract starts (11th).

About a week in I get presented with a bill totalling £191 from the lead tenant. With £25 for “household items” and a further £16 for WiFi/sky. I was a bit suspicious with there being no calculations or breakdowns and no mention of any rental payment but was going to let it go to keep the peace. If the £25 became a monthly thing I was going to say something. They said it was fine to pay at the end of the month so I haven’t paid yet.

But now I’m on the verge of having been here contractually for 2 weeks they have asked for an additional two months council tax...this seems to be taking the !!!!. Contractually I’ve been here 2 weeks, 3 weeks if you include when I first started moving things...I did the bills in my previous share and I’m sure council tax wasn’t paid in advance...

I’m starting to think they’re taking me for a mug.

Firstly I’d like to check with the landlord the agreement re: rent (I pay him directly so want to check he’s aware of this payment).

Secondly I want to get a breakdown of the rest including evidence I.e. the council tax bills.

Does this sound the right approach and does it sound like they’re pulling a fast one?

Regretting moving in now.

getmore4less

Is the tenancy joint or seperate
What did you think you were getting included.

Get a full breakdown of what you are paying extra for.

If don't want the sky and have not agreed to pay in advance you should not have to pay.

ryanm8655

It’s a joint tenancy.

I was told bills come to about £150 a month each on average (council tax being £110). Energy, Internet (Water is included in rent).

As far as household stuff is concerned, I was told we just share communal things like coffee etc. But just buy if one of us sees an offer etc. I was fine with that but not being ripped off.

Re: rent, there was no agreement other than the contract start date, I still had time left on my previous contract so would’ve stayed and moved later. It appeared to be a gesture of good Will.

G_M

What does your tenancy agreement say about utilities? Council Tax?

Contract start date was 11th and you moved in on /after that date I believe. Yes? So rent is due to the landlord (I trust you are not paying the 'lead tenant' your rent?) from the 11th.

Unless some specific agreement was reached with the lead tenant regarding him storing your furniture from the 1st to the 11th, you do not owe for this. He agreed to store it without agreeing a fee with you (as far as I understand).

The £25 sounds like a monthly amount to cover communal household items - this seems a fair amount, but you can discuss this/negotiate once you see how it is spent and what the monthly costs actually are. In house shares, an equal monthly fixed kitty is often fairer than someone (usually ends up the same person!) 'just buying things when needed'.


Presumably if the £25 x 3 (£75) is not all spent in a given month, it is carried forward to the next month?

£16 for WiFi/sky

* for what period? A week? a month? a quarter? the 2 weeks up to 11th?
* do you want wifi/sky?
* was it ever discussed with your joint tenants?
* is it mentioned in the tenancy agreement?
* again, it is common in house shares for this to be shared equally, but by agreement.

a bill totalling £191

£25 + £16 = 41. What is the remaining £150?
* is it rent for 1st - 11th July? If so, rent is payable to the landlord, not the tenant. And the tenancy agreement should be amended to start date of the 1st.

* Have you actually got a tenancy agreement? If yes:
* is start date 11th July?
* who is named as 'The Tenant'? Just you? All 3 occupants?
* what does it say about utilities?Council Tax?

Council tax can be paid in a number of ways, covering various periods, eg
* one-off payment in advance in April
* 10 x Direct Debit in advance
* 12 x Direct Debit in advance
* in arrears
etc
Ask to see the council tax bill, to see how often it is paid and for what period. If the 2 months CT is for 11th July - 10th Sept (or 1st Aug) that would be fair. If it is for the period before 11th July, refuse to pay.

You need to forge a relationship with your housemates. Buy a cake. Ask them (both) to sit down with you at a mutually convenient time, and make them tea (or get some beers in, whatever). Then go through the bills and sort out the shared costs.
As you need to live with these people, try not to be confrontational. Be as friendly as you can whilst being firm about getting information and reaching fair agreements.

Before doing this, read your tenancy agreement carefully.


Did you pay a deposit? Who to? The landlord or the lead tenant? Did you get a receipt? Is the deposit mentioned in the tenancy agreement? Is it protected in a registered scheme?

CIS

But now I’m on the verge of having been here contractually for 2 weeks they have asked for an additional two months council tax...this seems to be taking the !!!!. Contractually I’ve been here 2 weeks, 3 weeks if you include when I first started moving things...I did the bills in my previous share and I’m sure council tax wasn’t paid in advance...

As a joint tenant in an occupied property then you only fall liable for the council tax charge from the date you became resident in the property. The council tax account should be apportioned to show the date you became resident and a new council tax demand notice issued from that date.

ryanm8655

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies and apologies for the rambling initial post. Head was in a bit of a spin about it all.

I’ll try and make this one a bit more clear.

We have a joint tenancy agreement with all three names on the agreement, which started on 11th July.

I got some furniture delivered on the 3rd July and the rest of my things moved in on the 4th July. As the room was vacant they said that was fine but that the tenancy would start on the 11th. No mention was made of rent other than the Landlord asking me to pay rent by the 11th each month (which I did).

Technically I moved in on the 4th (I stayed there that evening though then was away until the 8th).

In terms of bills, nothing unusual is written in the tenancy but when we discussed council tax was described as being paid monthly and about £110 each. Energy is quarterly but comes to about £30 each a month. Then sky WiFi at around £15. Household wasn’t mentioned other than buying things as and when and whoever pays charging the others.

On around the 15th the other tenant handed me a slip of paper with a sum on and said I needed to pay her it but the end of the month was fine. Upon inspection there was a sum of 1/4 of a months rent (£150), £25 described as “household” and £16 “WiFi”. (£75 in a month on toilet roll, coffee and cleaning stuff seems crazily excessive to me but it also includes bottled water and I suspect the 6 bunches of fresh flowers she buys weekly).

A week later I’ve been asked to pay an additional £220 for council tax.

None of this has been broken down or presented as a calculation. I said “that’s cool but can you email me a breakdown”. Her response was “well it’s not cool it’s £400 (with a chuckle)” and “as long as you can pay by Monday as I’m going away”. So essentially brushed it off.

I’ve checked the council tax rate and it’s £3300 for a year, so I assume we’re paying over 10 months but this hasn’t been mentioned, just that it’s £110 a month.

The situation is complicated by the fact that the previous tenant moved out after a day. Hence they didn’t contribute to the bills last month. So it feels like I’m being made to pay for that month somehow...

It seems the obvious solution is that I get hold of all bills and work out my share based on moving in on the 4th but I’m not convinced she’ll play ball. Is it worth me contacting council myself and asking for a different schedule?

I’ve also contacted the landlord re: rent and said I would prefer to pay him to avoid ambiguity.

Thanks!

Comms69

ryanm8655 wrote: »

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies and apologies for the rambling initial post. Head was in a bit of a spin about it all.

I’ll try and make this one a bit more clear.

We have a joint tenancy agreement with all three names on the agreement, which started on 11th July. - it's a terrible idea to be joint tenants with strangers. They could stop paying rent and you'd be liable!

I got some furniture delivered on the 3rd July and the rest of my things moved in on the 4th July. As the room was vacant they said that was fine but that the tenancy would start on the 11th. No mention was made of rent other than the Landlord asking me to pay rent by the 11th each month (which I did). - fine

Technically I moved in on the 4th (I stayed there that evening though then was away until the 8th). - irrelevant, you took possession on the 3rd.

In terms of bills, nothing unusual is written in the tenancy but when we discussed council tax was described as being paid monthly and about £110 each. £330 a month, more than £3k a year? where is this? Energy is quarterly but comes to about £30 each a month. Then sky WiFi at around £15. Household wasn’t mentioned other than buying things as and when and whoever pays charging the others. - do you know these people?

On around the 15th the other tenant handed me a slip of paper with a sum on and said I needed to pay her it but the end of the month was fine. Upon inspection there was a sum of 1/4 of a months rent (£150), £25 described as “household” and £16 “WiFi”. (£75 in a month on toilet roll, coffee and cleaning stuff seems crazily excessive to me but it also includes bottled water and I suspect the 6 bunches of fresh flowers she buys weekly). -what the...??!!

A week later I’ve been asked to pay an additional £220 for council tax.

None of this has been broken down or presented as a calculation. I said “that’s cool but can you email me a breakdown”. Her response was “well it’s not cool it’s £400 (with a chuckle)” and “as long as you can pay by Monday as I’m going away”. So essentially brushed it off. - so don't pay it.

I’ve checked the council tax rate and it’s £3300 for a year, so I assume we’re paying over 10 months but this hasn’t been mentioned, just that it’s £110 a month. - yes C Tax is paid over 10 months

The situation is complicated by the fact that the previous tenant moved out after a day. Hence they didn’t contribute to the bills last month. So it feels like I’m being made to pay for that month somehow... - this is why you don't sign joint agreements with strangers

It seems the obvious solution is that I get hold of all bills and work out my share based on moving in on the 4th but I’m not convinced she’ll play ball. Is it worth me contacting council myself and asking for a different schedule? -the bills will be estimated anyway

I’ve also contacted the landlord re: rent and said I would prefer to pay him to avoid ambiguity.

Thanks!

Absolutely. And next time, get separate contracts!

CIS

It seems the obvious solution is that I get hold of all bills and work out my share based on moving in on the 4th but I’m not convinced she’ll play ball. Is it worth me contacting council myself and asking for a different schedule?

If you've joined existing tenants then you'd be overpaying your 'contribution' towards the council tax with the way they are splitting it at the moment.

To keep it right you should advise the council of the date you moved in and ask for a revised demand notice from that date in the 3 names.


Council Tax is paid over 10 months as standard for convenience to the council but it rolls the whole 12 months in so a bill for the whole year will be including an amount for which you are not liable. You can request it to be paid over the whole year though, so 12 months (or the balance) rather than 10.

G_M

CIS wrote: »

Council Tax is paid over 10 months as standard for convenience to the council but it rolls the whole 12 months in so a bill for the whole year will be including an amount for which you are not liable. You can request it to be paid over the whole year though, so 12 months (or the balance) rather than 10.

is it not a risk for OP to request this from the council?If his name ends up on the account, he could be liable for the full amount, and given the (short ) history so far, I'd recommend keeping the lead tenant as account holder on all bills possible!

Ignore the pressure to pay by Monday and insist on sitting down and discussing and reviewing ALL bills. With BOTH the other tenants.


At present you hold all the cards as you have not paid and they have to convince you of the fairness of their demands.

The only exception is the rent, which you should pay, but to the landlord (not the lead tenant who clearly cannot be trusted), based on the tenancy agreement.

Tea, cake, beer and a house meeting!

CIS

is it not a risk for OP to request this from the council?If his name ends up on the account, he could be liable for the full amount, and given the (short ) history so far, I'd recommend keeping the lead tenant as account holder on all bills possible!

He should be liable in law as a joint tenant anyway* and should be noted on the council tax from the date he became resident**

*Technically the council just need to issue him with a joint tax payers notice at a later date to say ' you should have been on the demand and we missed you off, but here's your notice'.


**Although, on a technical point, if he moved in as resident prior to his tenancy starting then he may not be liable until the 11th if there were already tenants resident.(On the basis he was only a resident until the 11th and any resident tenant would trump that for a short period.)

ryanm8655

Slight update re: rent.

Contacted landlord who wasn’t aware but it was because she was paying the rent for that week. Though it actually worked out at £138 not £150.

I followed up my request for a breakdown on Wednesday night with a polite email asking for a breakdown and copies of bills so that we could work out what I owe based on my move date. I also said we need to get an updated council tax schedule to reflect my move date. Even offered to contact the council and arrange it to save her the hassle.

The response was a torrent of abuse saying she doesn’t like how I deal with things, can’t believe I went running to the landlord etc. And refusing to give her workings saying she’ll show me the paperwork on Sunday.

I responded politely again saying I wasn’t sure what the issue is. Sunday is fine but can she send me a breakdown anyway as then I can take a look in advance and it’ll be easier to resolve on Sunday. I also requested her details to pay the rent and offered to do so immediately.

Again I got a strange response...again refusing to break things down, ignoring my point re: council tax and asking me to bring cash on Sunday as her bank account is Australian and she doesn’t want to pay fees.

Very confused but there is no way I’m paying her cash and not sure how I’d know how much cash to bring anyhow...