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Share of freehold major issue

2

Comments

  • Tom99 wrote: »
    What makes you think you are joint tenants? To own 1/3rd you need to be tenants in common.

    Good point. My solicitor just keeps saying we're joint tenants...
  • eddddy wrote: »
    You could just sell the flat as a leasehold flat (with no promise of a 'share of freehold').


    Then sort out the issues with transferring the freehold at your leisure - maybe transfer ownership of the freehold to a company, and deal with the associated RFR.

    At some time in the future, when everything is sorted, you can then offer to sell your share in the company to whoever has bought your flat (at a reasonable price).

    My buyer won't buy the flat without the freehold, but I see what you're saying. Would transferring it to a company not trigger RFR for this leaseholder to buy it anyway?
  • Tom99
    Tom99 Posts: 5,371 Forumite
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    Good point. My solicitor just keeps saying we're joint tenants...
    Maybe just lose wording. My guess is that you are joint legal owners but the beneficial interest is held as tenants in common because that is the only way you can own 1/3rd.
  • Tom99
    Tom99 Posts: 5,371 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary
    edited 24 July 2019 at 2:09PM
    My buyer won't buy the flat without the freehold, but I see what you're saying. Would transferring it to a company not trigger RFR for this leaseholder to buy it anyway?
    I believe it does but since there are two qualifying tenants the other long leaseholder cannot make a majority and buy the freehold without you as leaseholder agreeing as well.

    If you do need to serve a RFR notice (and it seems ridiculous that you should have too) the other freeholder would need to be part of that notice. However, if they agree, you serve the notice on the two leaseholders, you and another. You then immediately reply (as leaseholder) that you do not want to buy the freehold, therefore the other leaseholder cannot serve a notice to buy because 1 out of 2 is not a majority of over 50%. The requirement to serve a notice has then been fulfilled.
  • Tom99 wrote: »
    I believe it does but since there are two qualifying tenants the other long leaseholder cannot make a majority and buy the freehold without you as leaseholder agreeing as well.

    If you do need to serve a RFR notice (and it seems ridiculous that you should have too) the other freeholder would need to be part of that notice. However, if they agree, you serve the notice on the two leaseholders, you and another. You then immediately reply (as leaseholder) that you do not want to buy the freehold, therefore the other leaseholder cannot serve a notice to buy because 1 out of 2 is not a majority of over 50%. The requirement to serve a notice has then been fulfilled.

    But if I've sold the leasehold to my buyer then I won't be a leaseholder to be served notice to by the company? Unless I've misunderstood you?
  • Tom99
    Tom99 Posts: 5,371 Forumite
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    But if I've sold the leasehold to my buyer then I won't be a leaseholder to be served notice to by the company? Unless I've misunderstood you?
    I thought you said the buyer you have lined up will only buy your lease if they also buy your 1/3rd of the freehold?
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 18,178 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 24 July 2019 at 3:14PM
    My buyer won't buy the flat without the freehold,

    So you might have to find another buyer who is happy to just buy a leasehold flat (with no share of freehold).

    That might be quicker than trying to resolve the current situation.

    Would transferring it to a company not trigger RFR for this leaseholder to buy it anyway?

    Maybe.

    But why do you care? Isn't that a good thing?

    e.g.
    • You sell your leasehold flat to somebody asap.
    • You arrange to sell the freehold to a company for [say] £5k. The leaseholders use RFR to jump in and buy it from you for £5k instead.

    Great result! You've got your share of the £5k in your pocket quicker, and with less hassle.
  • Tom99 wrote: »
    I thought you said the buyer you have lined up will only buy your lease if they also buy your 1/3rd of the freehold?

    Yes that's right. I've merged yours and Edddys message:
    You could just sell the flat as a leasehold flat (with no promise of a 'share of freehold').


    Then sort out the issues with transferring the freehold at your leisure - maybe transfer ownership of the freehold to a company, and deal with the associated RFR.

    At some time in the future, when everything is sorted, you can then offer to sell your share in the company to whoever has bought your flat (at a reasonable price).
    I believe it does but since there are two qualifying tenants the other long leaseholder cannot make a majority and buy the freehold without you as leaseholder agreeing as well.

    If you do need to serve a RFR notice (and it seems ridiculous that you should have too) the other freeholder would need to be part of that notice. However, if they agree, you serve the notice on the two leaseholders, you and another. You then immediately reply (as leaseholder) that you do not want to buy the freehold, therefore the other leaseholder cannot serve a notice to buy because 1 out of 2 is not a majority of over 50%. The requirement to serve a notice has then been fulfilled.
    Originally posted by Tom99

    So I think I've misunderstood here? Unless the idea is to sell my leasehold to my buyer, then sell my freehold along with the other freeholder's to a company, but then I'm not sure how I, not as a leaseholder anymore, would be able to carry out the rest of your plan? And I know my buyer would want the freehold and the other leaseholder wants the freehold.
  • Tom99
    Tom99 Posts: 5,371 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary
    If your buyer agrees you could just sell them your share of the freehold without serving a notice.
    In which case only a majority of qualifying tenants can exercise the right to information about the sale and a right to buy it themselves and the one other leaseholder could not do that alone.

    Extract from Act:

    'In those circumstances the requisite majority of the qualifying tenants of the flats contained in the premises affected by the relevant disposal (the “constituent flats”) have the rights conferred by the following provisions—

    section 11A (right to information as to terms of disposal, &c.),
    section 12A (right of qualifying tenants to take benefit of contract),
    section 12B (right of qualifying tenants to compel sale, &c. by purchaser), and
    section 12C (right of qualifying tenants to compel grant of new tenancy by superior landlord).'
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 18,178 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Tom99 wrote: »
    If your buyer agrees you could just sell them your share of the freehold without serving a notice.
    In which case only a majority of qualifying tenants can exercise the right to information about the sale and a right to buy it themselves and the one other leaseholder could not do that alone.

    Extract from Act:

    'In those circumstances the requisite majority of the qualifying tenants of the flats contained in the premises affected by the relevant disposal (the “constituent flats”) have the rights conferred by the following provisions—

    section 11A (right to information as to terms of disposal, &c.),
    section 12A (right of qualifying tenants to take benefit of contract),
    section 12B (right of qualifying tenants to compel sale, &c. by purchaser), and
    section 12C (right of qualifying tenants to compel grant of new tenancy by superior landlord).'


    The buyer's conveyancing is probably being done by a Conveyancing Paralegal on a fixed fee, who has no specialist knowledge of the Landlord and Tenant act.

    The buyer is probably just an "average joe" (maybe even an FTB) again with no specialist knowledge.

    Unless the buyer is prepared to find a solicitor with relevant expertise and pay them a hefty chunk of fees for their advice, I suspect things will fall apart.


    I'd still say it's far easier just to find another buyer and sell the flat as a leasehold flat (with no share of freehold, and no promise of a share of freehold in the future).
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